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A podcast where you join me (Colie) as I chat about what it takes to grow a sustainable + profitable business.
CRM Guru, Family Filmmaker, and Host of the Business-First Creatives podcast. I help creative service providers grow and streamline their businesses using Dubsado.
While many business gurus will point you towards creating passive income through digital products and offers, for many entrepreneurs, that won’t generate the revenue that your services do. In today’s episode, Brittany McBean joins us to share why it’s important to focus on your revenue generating offers while expanding your offer suite. Listen in as she shares why one-to-one services are her bread and butter, plus highlights how she’s built successful offers that generate consistent revenue in her business.
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Brittany McBean is a launch strategist & conversion copywriter who specializes in anti-sleazy, ethical, high-converting copy for online course creators & educators.
Through her research-based messaging strategy and copy, she helps her clients generate multi 6 & 7 figure revenue with their launches and funnels through empathy-based messaging and ethical marketing practices.
She’s worked with industry leaders such as Rick Mulready, Lattice Hudson, and Brandi Mowles.
She believes that Black lives matter now and always, marketing needs to help, not harm, and that it’s our responsibility to use our platforms to build up, magnify, and support historically and systemically marginalized people.
When she’s not trying to redistribute wealth in the world and dismantle the system by eliminating harmful marketing practices steeped in privilege & manipulation… You’ll find her chasing her child around the house screaming, “Stop eating that!” Her love languages are pizza, sarcasm & naps. She believes in the Oxford comma and will fight you on it
Today’s episode is brought to you by my Client Hub Template inside the DIY Systems Template Shop. Business owners often have their client information spread across a variety of different tools, making it hard to access the information they need to make critical decisions. That’s why I built the Client Hub Template for Airtable, to take the guesswork out of building your own!
Here are the highlights…
[1:12] Get to Know Brittany
[4:25] Beyond Services: Expanding Your Offer Suite
[5:56] One-to-One Services
[7:00] The Group Program
[7:45] Determining Her Path
[14:40] Getting Clear On Your Money Comes From
[19:48] Creating Prices for Revenue Based on Your Ideal Volume
[22:37] From Services to Shop Products
[27:20] Beta Testers & Looking at the Data
[31:10] Charging for Your Skill Level
[34:30] Building a High-Ticket Experience
[37:52] Advice for Setting Up Your Offer Suite
[47:45] Promoting Yourself to CEO
Connect with Brittany
Review the Transcript:
Colie: Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Business First Creatives Podcast. Today, I am interviewing Brittany McBean. I am super excited to be chatting with her. We recently had a one hour coffee chat where I felt like I had met my new bestie. Brittany, welcome to the podcast.
Brittany: Thank you. I loved, I love that chat. I don’t do small talk. I’m like a, a deep end first kind of person and you were too. And that was just so, so enjoyable. Cause I never know, I can’t shoot the shit and I don’t know how to be like, so where do you live? I don’t know where half my friends live. Cause I can’t ask that fucking question.
I’m just like, what was the darkest time in your life?
Colie: And how did you get over it? Oh my God. I totally agree. I mean, even before we hit record today, guys, we’ve been talking about pregnancy and miscarriages and Brittany’s surgery and just all kinds of medical stuff. So I really enjoy that when I get a chance to chat with her, we do talk about real shit and it’s not bullshit, which should help you figure out where today’s conversation is going to go.
But before we get started, Brittany, I mean, I’ve told everyone that you’re awesome, but they probably have no fucking idea what you do. So can you tell the listening audience? Who you are, and what you do, and who you serve.
Brittany: Do you know what’s so interesting? Depending on what podcast I’m on, I get anxious about this question for the exact thing that we’re talking about today. And so earlier today, as I was like preparing for this, I was getting a little angsty about this question because I know exactly who your podcast is for.
And like your audience and I was like, how should I answer this because I do two things and I, depending on the season, my business have emphasis on one over the other. And so, depending on the audience, I’ll share one over the other and you’re kind of a little bit of both. So what I do, I am primarily a marketing strategist.
a launch strategist and copywriter. So I have a side of my business that functions as a microagency where we write full funnel launch strategy and copy for established online business owners. So a lot of my clients have been in business for a long time, have pretty established businesses, lists, offers, and we’re writing, a lot of copy and strategy for them doing pretty big projects over there.
And over the past. For the last three years, I have been mentoring other copywriters and service providers, teaching them how to actually build a premium business that serves clients at scale. At a similar level, through systems and processes and really streamline strategy. So whether I’m talking to service providers or marketers and like online business owners, entrepreneurs, I will usually put emphasis on one over the other.
Most people who know me know me as a, like a launch copywriter, a strategist, a marketing strategist, but I do both of those. And I think your audience kind of spans. Both of those. So I always get a little anxious about that, but we’re going to talk about that today, which is really exciting.
Colie: We are, guys. If you have not listened to previous episodes where I talk about how I create the content for this podcast, sometimes I interview someone, and after I’ve interviewed them, I get a brilliant idea of, like, a series that I can do. And I reach out to other people to try to bring them in on the series.
And today’s episode, Brittany and I had no idea what we were going to talk about when we scheduled this. Like, literally,
Brittany: I could talk to a wall and just go. Like, I’m just going to show up and we’re going to, it’s going to be amazing. Not because of me, because of you.
Colie: Oh, Brittany. So today when she showed up, I’m like, Hey, I found out a series and you’re going to be in it. So I want to tell you guys about the series because Brittany is actually going to be the first step in the, what I am calling. I know beyond services, expanding your offer suite.
Brittany: I really thought you were going to say Beyonce. Like, Beyonce! I get so excited!
Colie: no, but in my business, I know that many people know I do Dubsado and HoneyBook setups like done for you, kind of like Brittany does her launch copywriting. And then I also have a course used to be for photographers, but now it’s for all creatives on how to DIY your systems in Dubsado, or there’s now a HoneyBook version.
And then recently, as in the last six months, I have launched a template shop. So I’ve now got three different levels of how someone can work with me on a very similar like outcome. And I started thinking to myself, I know there have to be other people that are like, I want to go beyond my service and what do I do?
So Brittany is the first guest in this series and we are going to be talking about not only her main service, which she already told you was launch copywriting. We’re going to talk about the other. Things that she’s added to her offer suite and why she decided to create them. So Brittany, first, I think we should get this out of the way because I know that you like to tell everyone you make your bread and butter on launch copywriting one to one services.
Like no matter what else you do, the majority of your money still comes from your one to one service.
Brittany: and I have no interest, as of now, This is, I’m in my fifth year of business. I have four years under my belt. I have no desire to like, scale out of client services. I’ve never Had a goal of, like, creating an online course and having that passive income and, like, never working with a client again. I love, love, love the client work.
It is, like, you are trading time for money. There is a limit, like, there is a cap on it. And I’m very. intentional and strategic about doing that sustainably, but I love the client work. No desire to scale out of it. That is where 80 to 90 percent of our revenue comes from. That might change at some point in terms of just that, like, there might be like a 60, 40 at some point, but I’ve no desire to scale out of client work.
I love doing the one on one work.
Colie: Awesome. So I actually don’t know this, so I’m going to ask so that this can start our conversation. Which additional offer came first, your group program or the shortcut shop?
Brittany: Yeah. The group program.
Colie: Okay, so let’s talk about the group program because I feel like any time someone wants to move away from their service and either create an online course or a group program, you can take one of two paths.
The first one is that you teach people how to DIY the service that you already offer. So, in other words, you would teach everyday business owners how to
Brittany: Right. They’re copy. Mm hmm.
Colie: Yeah. And then there’s the second path, which is you teach other people how to build a business just like you. So you are very successful at launch copywriting, and you want to teach other people how to build a business where they are successful as launch copywriter and marketing strategist.
So tell me about which path you chose and why.
Brittany: So and I’ll correct you a little bit and it’s just because I’ve never divin deep into my offer the second offer with you So the I actually do something even stupider and harder The group program that I teach, I mentor copywriters and service providers on like more like the business strategy.
And so it’s not just launch copywriters. Like those copywriters are all over the map in terms of like their niche and their expertise. And it really is more about, like, the systems and strategy and the processes to like, create that client experience, create a premium offer, all of that stuff. I chose the hard path and there are many, many, many days, weeks, months, and even years that I regret it because when I sat down and decided to create the group program, it was like 100 percent out of like passion and desire.
And I was not sitting down saying what’s like the most strategic marketing plan, the most profitable path. Because if I was thinking about what is the most profitable, Marketing strategy. It makes so much sense to talk about one thing, even if you have two audiences, right? So it is easier from like that, like Pareto principle to like 20 percent of your efforts bring you 80 percent of work, whatever.
To say, I am only establishing myself as a online marketing expert. So my YouTube channel, my email, my social media, all of my content, everything I do, I am only talking about like launch strategy and copy. And so whether you’re coming to me for, like that done for you one on one service and that. That is something that you can invest in, or you’re at that place in your business, or maybe you’re not ready to invest in that.
You don’t have the budget you’re earlier on in your business and you need something a little more accessible. And you’re going to go for maybe something like a template or whatever. I have those offers for you. And it’s just a matter of like where you are in your business or where your budget is or what your need is or what, whatever, that would have made the most sense.
There are many days where I’m like, why didn’t I do that? If I was just thinking about. That is the smartest way to go and I didn’t do that because when I was trying to grow my business, I struggled really, really, really hard with the business part of it. I am your typical, like, creative visionary. I love the big idea.
I didn’t know what copywriting was when I started. I had to learn that from scratch, but the copywriting wasn’t the hard. Like, that learning curve wasn’t hard even though I had never done it before. That came naturally. I think for a lot of us creatives, like, photographers, you pick up a camera and you don’t know what all the buttons are, but you’re like, my brain was made to do this.
My brain can figure out these buttons because I know that when I look through this lens, I can, I know what a picture should look like in my brain and I just need to figure out how to make that work with these buttons. Right? So I knew that that wasn’t the hard part. The hard part was everything else, making like the business work the way I saw it in my head.
And I didn’t know how to do that. I didn’t know how to set up a business. I didn’t know how to set up systems. I didn’t know what a process should look like. I didn’t know what a client experience should look like. I didn’t know how to manage a project. I didn’t know how to go from point A to B to C to Z.
I To get to, to Z, like, I couldn’t do that. I have severe ADHD and depression and anxiety. Like it’s, it’s a beautiful cocktail of terrible mental health and a cocktail of medication to go with it. But like, I couldn’t do that. That was such a struggle. And it took so long to learn that, that when I had an established business that was serving clients at that level and did have those systems and those processes and those strategies established and did have the infrastructure and it was on paper.
I was like, this wasn’t anywhere for me. Like I couldn’t find this for copywriters. I had incredible mentors who did help me figure out my offers and did help me with some business strategy and did help me with copy, but this, the thing that I needed wasn’t there and. I don’t know that I can teach what I do naturally because it becomes naturally to me.
Like, I always say it’s like teaching someone how to be tall and I get so frustrated when people are like, Oh, like I work all day and I do this. I’m like, I don’t have the energy. I have depression, right? Like, I can’t, like, that’s you naturally, right? Like, it’s like an extrovert trying to teach an introvert how to be extroverted.
You just like, you can’t teach me how to be tall on 5’3 You can’t teach me how to do that, like, whatever, right? But I can teach the thing that I learned because it was like my biggest deficit. And so when I had it mildly figured out, I was like, I want to teach this because this was nowhere for me. And I don’t want people burning out or taking their immense talent and then undercharging and undercharging, especially women, especially people of color, especially people in the LGBTQ plus community who are paid pennies on.
The white man’s dollar because they have talent that they should be getting paid thousands for, but they don’t know how to market it. They don’t know how to set up that experience. They don’t know how to create that business that should actually command those prices. And so I created that program in 2021.
It’s called the 5 figure leap. I hate the name. I want to change the name, but that’s what it’s called. It’s great for for branding. It’s just like sell something for 3 years until everyone you have to hate the name. But I did that and now I have a business that speaks to two completely different audiences with two completely different messages under one brand name with one platform.
And most days I have no idea how to do that super well. But somehow it works and I kind of just figure it out as I go. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Colie: I mean, I’m going to add one more layer on that. And I have three different audiences. I still do photography. So that’s everyday people. I set up the systems for other photographers. And then, well, I guess now my second audience is, I’m still teaching those people how to DIY it. So maybe I just have two audiences, but I definitely feel your pain.
And I also feel your pain in that. That’s why this. Podcast was created because I feel like so many creatives get really stuck on learning how to do the craft better, take better pictures, write better, copy, do whatever the creative service is. You are willing to pour all of the money into making that better.
but what’s really going to get you paid? What’s really gonna make sure that in 10 years you still have a business is the business side is the things that no one in the photography industry was really teaching. And so that, I mean, I only teach a small portion of it. I do the systems, but in that, and in my done for use setups, I’m often still coaching people on, okay, but I don’t understand your offer.
Like you realize I can’t help you sell this in systems. If the offer doesn’t make any sense to me, so then we end up pulling the offer apart to make sure that it’s profitable and like all of those things that you’re talking about are definitely part of my process. I just don’t sell that as like, this is the thing that you get after working with me, which maybe I should, Brittany, maybe I should revamp my messaging to let people know that it is, you know, almost equal parts system and business strategy together.
Brittany: I mean, it’s so, it’s so hard to figure out that message, but I think that what’s so important is having, like, such a, is being so tuned in to, like, I can’t believe I just said tuned in. I’ve literally never said that before. I’m, that’s, I’m not that person. Being so, um, clear about where And how your money comes in, because. What you cannot do is just listen to the business podcast, except for this one, because it’s brilliant. And then be like, this is how I do my business. Because what I see every fucking day that I onboard a new person into the program is they’re like, I’m like, Hey, tell me what you’ve been doing. Tell me what’s not working.
You know, like we go through, I like dive really, really deep every fucking time. They’re like, okay, like I have a freebie out there and I’m building my email list and like, I’m creating content. And I’m like, Amazing. How many clients are we getting from that? And they’re like, absolutely not. And I’m like, then why the fuck are we doing it?
Because what I can tell you with certainty is that for the client side of my business, I have never in four, almost five years gotten a client from my email list. And I’ve never ever gotten a client from social media yet. I work every single day to grow my email list. I know that I need eight to 10 clients a year to make like 200, 000.
A year on the client side of the business, and I know where those clients come from, and it’s not my email list. So I’m never going to put a second of effort. Well, that’s not true. I’m not going to say never. It took me a while to learn this because I was growing my email list, just like, here’s a freebie.
Here’s a freebie. Here’s a freebie. Not even thinking are the people coming onto my list, the people who are going to inquire, like that person is coming for a free thing. That’s great. Wonderful. Is that free thing for business? Is it for copy? Is it whatever, right? But like, I don’t need volume for the services.
I need 8 to 10 of the right people who want to work with me every year. I can do that for the product side of the business, whether it’s a shortcut shop. And so we’ve talked about that a couple of times. I’ve basically taken, a couple other parts of the business, and Like of how I run my business with the clients and just created some smaller, more accessible offers for people who aren’t ready to spend six months with me.
And just said here, like you can plug this into your business. Here’s like a template or a system or something like something, just, just take it and go, right. I’ve taken like the, those need volume. We know that funnels like online marketing funnels when they are working convert between one to 3%, which I personally think is a very low bar.
But like. We aim for higher, I like I’ve had clients are converting at like seven to 15%. Mine are usually higher. Like, but we know that we need volume and that audience takes a while to nurture and they need to get to know you and they need to trust you. And there’s a million of us out there. So when I’m growing my email list, when I’m creating content on YouTube, like I’m thinking about these things, but I am never trying to get clients from my email list.
Every now and then, I might run like a promo for a VIP day. Cause it’s like a lower offer, more accessible offer. I know that people on my email list are likely in that range. You know, like I’m not, I’m smart and intentional, but you have to think about if I have multiple offers, who is the audience for this offer?
Where are they? How am I getting them in my world? Do I need volume? Do I need? I mean, it’s that audience is still quality to me. I, it’s still, it’s not quantity over quality, but there’s a difference between volume or like. A very small amount of the right people and you cannot just be like, I’m growing my list because I do online business.
I’m growing my list because I sell an offer like the intentionality has to be there. Otherwise, you are going to burn yourself out. And when I see service providers who are spending money on like convert kit, and I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? Your margins could be so slim, like 40 bucks for honey book.
That’s it. Guess what? Now you have money for a VA. You just got, you just got yourself a VA for 10 hours a month. Like, why are you paying ConvertKit? Why are you, why, why would you ever go get Floyd? So what are you, like, what are you doing? Right? The, the margins are so slim when you’re a service provider.
You don’t need these other tools. You just need the right prices with the right process, the right systems and good clients.
Colie: And to know where those clients are. Now, I mean, Brittany just gave us a fucking masterclass on this and I’m going to say like to put me out there, my done for you service is 5k. So if I want to make six figures off of the service alone, and granted, I’m saying six figures in revenue, not profit. We can have that conversation too, but let’s just for the math to make it easy.
Six figures, a hundred K that’s 20 clients. I’m probably not going to find those 20 clients on my email list, just like Brittany said, but where am I going to find them now, Brittany, I find mine from like the speaking opportunities that I get
Brittany: ding, ding, ding,
Colie: that I’ve built. Okay. I was going to say, did you do anything different?
Brittany: Nope. I mean, like when you’re, here’s the thing. In order to earn a significant amount of revenue, the math has to math. So either if you’re charging low, you have to have a lot of clients. If you’re charging high, you have to have high prices and a few amount of clients. If you’re charging low, you’re going to have a lot of clients and you’re going to burn out.
So at that point, you do need volume. And that’s exhausting, but you can go and get that on Fiverr. And you’re just going to burn yourself out. But when you raise your prices, because you’ve raised your experience and the quality of the business that you’re doing now, you only need a couple of clients, but you have to go and get them in the right places.
And so at that point, you’re going to get about 20 to 25 percent of your clients. I just say from like the front end of your business, like they’re coming in cold. And so those people are meeting me for the first time. usually in a speaking opportunity. And so for me and my world and my business that comes up on podcasts, the right podcasts, you know, what, what matters to them, what actually holds some weight and authority and credibility to them, on stages, virtual or in real life or inside, like the right community is whether it’s like a paid community, a mastermind, but it has to be the right one.
Now I’ve never said no to a speaking gig. You asked me to come speak in your community. The answer is yes. Cause like. There’s no one I won’t talk
Colie: You just don’t
Brittany: right? Yeah, but that is where my people, that is where like 20 to 25 percent of the people come from that meet me for the first time. I’ve had like 1 person off of Google ever the other 75%.
Those are all going to come from like the back end warm, like either returning customers or referrals and somebody who comes in for a referral. They’re basically a short thing. It’s just like, do we align? Are we a good fit? And do you want what I’ve. What I offer, basically.
Colie: I just had a Julia Roberts moment, I’m sorry, where she tells me, I’m sure things so we could just get this
Brittany: I’m a sure thing, baby!
Colie: Okay, so we’ve, I mean, we got, we went off on a tangent guys. I apologize. And I’m not really sorry at the same time. So when it comes to your decision to do the group offer, I think we’ve hit that.
But why did you decide to create the shortcut shop? Because in my case, I actually launched my done for you services and my course at the exact same time, but one thing that I didn’t realize when I did it was I actually had people who bought my course. because that’s what they thought they needed and they got in there and whether life just started happening or they felt like they got in over their head.
I have a 10 percent conversion rate of people who buy my course and then end up upgrading to a VIP day. So I don’t really know if going from your shortcut shop to your services is a thing. I mean, I, I haven’t found that in my templates, but what was the purpose of creating the shortcut shop? Like, what do you hope to get out of it?
Brittany: Yeah, so The funny thing is when I first launched my new website, I think it was 21, I had like a couple of the shortcut shop products on there. And I was just like products to sell. Yay. Like, there wasn’t a strategy behind it, but I knew that I just wanted, I just wanted to teach or just like have things to offer.
Like, I just wanted to do that. I just love the idea of it. And like, it wasn’t a cash grab because I was like, here’s something for like. 97. I’m not, there’s no funnel. I’m not even marketing it. It was just like, I like the idea of it. I like the potential of it. And I want it to like, I didn’t want everything I had to like live and die behind the client services.
I liked the idea of like sharing it, you know, um, so that it just kind of started, but that being said, so in 2021, I launched the five figure leap for the first time. The very first time I did it, it was like super beta. I did it for 500. It was. I think maybe like, Oh my gosh, I can’t even remember. Maybe it was like 12 weeks or something.
No, that’s maybe it was shorter. Maybe it was like four weeks. I don’t, I honestly don’t remember. But I did it for 500 and we had 50 people join. And, but it like, there wasn’t any one on one component. There was, it was like weekly group coaching and very similar to the content that’s in there now. Like some has been upgraded, but some of it, I’m like, now that shit is good.
Like this. This works. So that was a lot, but it also like got validated really fast and they gave me so much feedback and I changed a lot about like how things worked. It was really cool. And then I continuously increased the price and like the structure of the support and whatever. Every time we launched it until what we have now where it’s, 600 a month. It was a 12 month or like a 1 year long experience. This last time we launched it. I did it for just 6 months because the economy is so funky because copywriters are really struggling. I wanted people to just feel a little more secure making that commitment. So it was 3600 which is 600 a month, but it’s not like a monthly membership or anything.
And there is 1 on 1 support. There is group coaching. There’s just, there’s a lot of support in there. So, I’ve had that, that model with that pricing and that kind of support for about two years now. So last year we launched in October, the end of October, and it was a 12 month and then like Black Friday was coming up and I was like, I wonder if we could do a downsell.
And it wasn’t, it wasn’t about like a cash grab. It was just like, there were a lot of people who were like, I’m not financially ready for this yet. And I was like, Hmm, I wonder if I had something for them. And I didn’t love the idea of like taking something out of the program and then being like, Oh, but then you’d have to pay double if you wanted to get in.
And then I didn’t, I don’t know. I was like, it has to see, there has to be something that stands alone. It has to like, start to finish, like, stand on its own promise. So anyway, there was a chunk inside the program that was just about proposals. And I was like. I think this stands on its leg because I had like four testimonials, like four over, over all three years that were like, the first thing I did when I got inside the program was go straight to the proposal training because I had a client that had just inquired and I changed everything about what I did with my proposals.
And it was the highest proposal I’ve ever sent out, the highest contract I’ve ever signed, and the quickest anybody has ever signed a proposal. I had like four, like four testimonials that said exactly that. And I was like, okay, this is the first place people go, so I know that it gets results quickly. It stands alone because people said, I just watched this and like, it is like, it is that fast action and it gets people money.
So if people were telling me that they’re not ready for this investment, they need a quick win. So long story short, I pulled just that section out, created its own mini course and called it the premium proposal. And I sold that for like Black Friday. And so it was kind of like a down sale, but it was also like the holiday sale, whatever, but I never sold it before.
So the deal was just like, here’s a product. Right. And what I did was I told all those people, Hey. This price is the cost of one month inside the program. So if this is all you need, you’ve got it, go make some money. If this gave you, like, either the finances you need or, like, vetted me enough that you wanted to join the program, You can quote like quote unquote upgrade and this will cover your first month.
You don’t have to pay for this content twice. So your investment takes care of your first month. Your first month is free and then your like payment will kick in after that. Um, cause I’m just not going to take their money twice for the same content. And 40 percent of the people who bought during the sale joined the program, which was
Colie: I wish y’all could see my face. My eyes just got really big. I mean, you know, I love the data. Oh my God.
Brittany: people who went through the launch and did not spend 7, 200. Immediately spent 600 and then immediately committed to 7, 200,
Colie: Okay. We should have led with that.
Brittany: which is so interesting. And so this year I’ve sold the premium proposal as its own product and it has stood alone as its own product. And I’ve consistently had people say like, is one of the best courses I’ve taken because it is a mini course. And I said like, this isn’t going to solve all your problems.
This isn’t for like. This isn’t a business course. This isn’t like, this is for this one and one and only thing. And if this was helpful the next time we launch, your coupon, whatever. And for a lot of people, it was what they needed to see how I taught. See if this was right for them or say, like, no, this isn’t right for me.
Or like, this was all I needed. Thanks. I needed some money this year. This got me some extra money, whatever. Um, so that’s been really interesting. And then I’ve continued to pull some things out of either the program that we’re. A low enough cost that like, if somebody bought that and then the five figure leap, I wouldn’t feel like 30.
Right. If somebody like paid 30 for like seven emails or something or five emails or whatever, and then bought five figure leap, be like, cool, whatever. That’s not like, I don’t feel weird. Like where premium proposal
Colie: the money
Brittany: Exactly. Exactly. Or something that I’ve never put together and sold before. But pretty much everything in my business goes inside of the five figure leap.
Like there’s nothing I don’t give those students. So every time I create something, I put it in there and all of the alumni students get upgrades for life. So even those people that paid 500 three years ago, get everything that’s ever been created in my business pretty much.
Colie: I mean, Brittany, I, I follow that same model. The people who actually beta bought, I feel so bad saying it out loud because you know, people are spending a thousand dollars on it. But when I first beta launched my course, it was 200 bucks. And those same people that paid 200 bucks are still on the Facebook group.
They still get to ask me, submit support tickets, all of that good stuff. So, I mean, they got like a fucking awesome deal when they bought that course on Black Friday, but. I also really hear you about giving people quick wins because I feel like that is what has really like kept some people, if you will, above water in this current economy is you don’t want to, you don’t want to lower your prices because I would never take my course and like give the exact same thing and like cut it.
You know, that’s not my model. For anything, but if I can take that one piece, which for you, it’s the proposal for me, it’s like the inquiry and the booking together. Like, if I can get you to start booking your clients on autopilot, it’s where you’re not having to constantly check up on your leads and follow up manually and do all that
Brittany: So that’s inside the premium proposal for me, like that’s, that’s a part of that for youth photographers. So it’s a slightly, it’s probably a slightly different process, but like that is a part of that process because it is crucial. Like, you knew that that is crucial to business, like that is your sales process that is giving you like hours of your life back, hours of anxiety that you don’t have to have, like crucial.
Colie: Absolutely. And I think you’ve also done a good thing with that because if you can get people to take that part of the process and quickly book two to three clients, of course, they’re not going to hesitate to get your bigger, your bigger offer because they’ve taken care of that thing. They actually made money in the process.
And for some of them, it might’ve actually been enough. to pay for the entire program. I mean, at 40%, I mean, I must be doing something wrong. I’m not converting people at 40%, Brittany. I need to, I need to up my game.
Brittany: Well, I think for me, like for the five figure leap, like that is really for a more intermediate business owner. I’ve absolutely had students come in who are earlier on in their business journey because they’re, they’re incredibly skilled copywriters. And so they don’t want to come in and be like, I’m a beginner entrepreneur, and so I, I can’t charge for the level of my skills.
I’m like, let’s get you caught up. Right? And so that, that happens a good bit, right? Where somebody is very early on their business journey, but they’ve been doing this for like a decade. And I’m like, no, no, no, we’re going to get your business up to the level of your skill. So you can just charge like, thousands, if not tens of thousands right away.
But for the most part, a lot, the people in the program are intermediate business owners. Some have actually hit their, a six figure year already that not, not most, but some, and then like had a huge dip or somebody may have had their first 10, a month, but only once and never again. But they’re like,
Colie: is not there.
Brittany: They’re like living in chaos and like clients that are like, let’s just hop in a meeting real quick.
And like, they’re drowning in their inbox and the client’s like, can you just add this on real quick? And like, um, can you like, you’re responsible for like, like terrible clients living in chaos and they don’t have that consistent revenue and the margins are so thin and they’re still undercharging. So for the people who are right for it, yeah.
Like, for the people who just need revenue and are not there in business, they, they get the premium proposal and they start creating that revenue. And that’s what they needed right then. And that’s probably enough to get them through, like, the next year before the people who are like. I need a system so that I can do that thing that I did one time over and over and over again.
And I need to see behind like the more sophisticated strategy, or I need to know like how this works for high end clients, or I need to know how I can recreate this again and again. And what this looks like from a system perspective, from a strategy perspective, from a tech perspective. Um, and then what this looks like in sales, right?
And I need to know if this bitch is all she’s cracked up to be, if I like how she teaches, if she actually says what she’s going to do, if what is on the sales page actually matches what’s in the program, and if she’s just giving me fluff, or if she’s actually giving me action and tangible, like, Resources that I can use in my business and if that’s the case and my business is ready to actually create the infrastructure and grab it by the balls and then move to the next level, then yeah, I’m going to go ahead and jump in.
Colie: Because that’s the one thing that we all, and you know, high ticket is a word that gets overused, but if you’re going to charge clients premium prices, you need to have a premium experience that matches it. And so I think that’s, you know, part of what we’re talking about together is bringing your prices and your experience up to the same level at the same time to something that is profitable and sustainable so that you do make it past, you know, year 3, year 10, which are.
Traditionally, milestones where a lot of business owners, decide to call it quits, they go do something else, they go back to a nine to five, they do something else besides continue to run the business that, they put their blood, sweat and tears into, if you will, for, you know, the couple of years that they had it.
Brittany: I mean, honestly, it’s the only thing that matters. Like, I have not come across someone yet who does not have the skill to do what they need to do in terms of like, let me, sorry, let me be clear when I am launching and someone like books a call to, I don’t call them sales calls cause I don’t sell. I’m not trying to like.
Take 7, 000 from someone who doesn’t have it. Right. But like, if someone’s like, Hey, is this right for me? Or like, do I have an experience? Do I have enough skill? I have never had that conversation with someone who was not exceptionally skilled in their craft. Are there people out there who should not be charging money who are like, running around with like, mediocre white man confidence charging tens of thousands of dollars?
Absolutely. Absolutely. I have not had those conversations with people when they are at that point where they’re like, I don’t think I’m ready to raise my prices because I’m not good enough. You abso fucking lutely are. You absolutely are. But, the packaging. Is cheap as shit. So nobody is go, they’re, they’re questioning because somebody who has the budget when they’re marketing budget for their copywriter and you’re charging 2, 000.
They’re like, something’s wrong with that. That’s not. That’s not good enough. That’s not like what I’m expecting to pay. There’s a reason that’s only 500. There’s a reason, right? Or like, or they inquire and then, and your website looks great and they love you and somebody recommended you, but it gets buried in your inbox and you don’t reply for five days.
And they’re like, yeah, no, sorry. Like I’m running a grown ass business. You have to run a grown ass business. Like I, I’ve moved on because like, I have a deadline to hit. That’s. Yeah. That’s what fucking matters at that point. That’s when you can charge five, six, seven, ten, twenty thousand dollars for your work.
Your skill is usually up to par at that point. The experience is not and the client needs you to prove that you can handle serving a business of their size. You don’t have to have a business of their size, but you have to be able to serve them.
Colie: Yeah. And I feel like, you know, we all need confidence, but also like the questioning, like you said, you don’t want anyone to look at your website or look at your sales process or look at your onboarding and be like, okay, I just committed to paying 15 K and they’re not giving me 15 K vibes. Like, is this how it’s going to continue to go down the road?
You don’t necessarily have to prove your worth, but you have to make sure that your processes are not having people question your worth, which I think are, you know, two different sides
Brittany: You just got to send off the green flags. That’s it. They’re looking for the green flags. And like the, the bias is in your favor. They don’t want to keep looking. They want, they’re looking for the green flags, but you’ve got to fly them.
Colie: Yes. All right, Brittany, let’s take this one step towards like the whole purpose of this series. So if I, I mean, I already have my offer suite, but let’s say that I didn’t, let’s say that I was just doing the done for you set system setups. If I decided that I wanted to expand my offer suite, because you said you fucking did it wrong, but if you were going to give
Brittany: But I love it.
Colie: A different business owner.
What would you tell them to think about first before like running out and creating an offer within 24 hours and just, you know, slapping up a sales page and putting it for sale? What should we do in order to prepare ourselves to expand our offer suite?
Brittany: Yeah. It depends on how much time and energy you have, because if you have time and energy to play. And you just want to like put up some offers and see what sells, you could do that, but a lot of us don’t really have the margins, like your time is precious. Your money is precious. And so for me, back in like 2019, 2020, like I had, I had energy.
I was, I had like, I was a spring chicken. Right. And so I could, I could do that. And it did come back to bite me in the ass because I didn’t start by looking at like the logistics and so if you have to learn by playing and and you need to learn by like throwing like 10 things out there and seeing what sticks with your audience, that’s fine, but then you have to immediately turn around.
And look at the numbers, but if you want to just start with the logistics, it’s, I mean, it’s margins and marketing, right? You need to immediately say, I am separating my business. There is a line in the sand. I don’t have to create 2 brands. I don’t have to, like, create 2 websites. Get that shit out of your head.
If it sounds hard, it is. If you think about changing your website immediately, shut the fuck up. Don’t. Anything that has to do with, like, what people see, stop that immediately. That is wasting your time. Think about, like, the marketing, but, like, don’t do that. Line in the sand, I now have the service end of my business.
What are the people and the tools and the processes that serve that side of the business? That is now isolated in a bubble. If there is crossover, amazing. I’m not saying you can’t have that crossover. I’m not saying the tools can’t crossover or the people or the team. But like isolate that. What are your margins?
What is your time? What is your team? What is everything it takes to serve those clients? What are those processes nailed that down to a science? Because now you have to create time in your business because you just became a CEO. You are no longer a service provider. You are now a CEO. You just gave yourself a promotion.
And that means that service side of your business. Just got a box around it. It just got put in a box and it got slid over to the left. And now there’s another side of your business on the right. And that is a product side of your business. And that is a completely different side of your business. And that side of your business has different tools, and different people if you have a team, and different margins, and different profit, and different processes.
And that goes in a box too. And if you use ClickUp for both of them, cool. If you have a Operations assistant or technical assistant that functions in both of them. Amazing. If you have a writer that writes for your clients and can also help write some product descriptions, amazing, but you have to run the numbers.
What are the margins in the client side of the business? What are the margins in the product side of the business? The numbers have to work and the product side of the business. Eventually has to be self sustaining because the client side of the business, of course, is going to provide for the product side of the business.
Because guess what? It takes money. It takes money to do that work because you are paying yourself time because remember you’re a CEO. Now you just promoted yourself. So now you have to go spend hours of your day on the product side of your business. So now you are paying yourself to do that. So the client work.
is now paying you to do that. The client work is now paying for Kajabi or whatever the fuck. The client work is now paying for ConvertKit. The client work is now paying for ManyChat. You need so many more tools for a product side of your business. The tech just quadruplified. You, if you are, if you are not good at tech, that also means that you likely need some
Colie: to hire someone.
Brittany: You know, you need tech support. You also need customer support. These things are amazing. I love, love, love working with students. I love that I have something to sell. I love when somebody says, how do you do this? I can be like, here’s a thing for 30. Boom. That’s exactly how I do it in my business. Here you go.
I love that. I mean, I love it. But I also have people that answer support inbox. I also have someone who sets up all the tech for me because I break it by looking at it, right? You now are going to hire a designer for a sales page. I also have a Google Doc sales page. So please, like you, I have a Google Doc sales page.
And also I have paid designers a lot of money for a sales page that I have spent hours writing, right? So like, That eventually, like the client side of the business is going to pay for that, but then eventually it has to self sustain so your products have to pay for the ConvertKit and the ManyJet and the Kajabi and the, like all of, all of the tech or whatever.
I don’t know why I’m just saying those three, but like, there’s a lot of tech in there. There’s a lot. The, the heat maps, the whatever. And it doesn’t have to be crazy. Like you, you can simplify, of course, but it still has to sustain. And. If you are not marketing it, it will not sell. If you create a product, they will not come.
Colie: I mean,
Brittany: I, like, I’m sorry, all of the beautiful white people with shiny hair, who you follow, who have told you that if you create an online course you will make a lot of money, they are lying to you. Creating the program is the easiest part.
Brittany: It is the easiest part. It will convert at 1 to 3%. So run your numbers.
How much do you want to make on that program? How much do you want to charge? How much do you want to make on that product? If you want to make that much, then figure out what do 3%? How many people do you need in your audience? And then how is it? How are you going to get them? And what does that convert at?
Because that 3 percent of that people, those, that amount of people on Instagram. Well, 2 percent of those people are seeing your content. So then 2%, 3 percent of 2%. So that’s, that’s that number of people in your email list. Well, how many of that audience is converting on your email list? Run the numbers.
And it’s a long game. I’m not saying like, well, if you can’t do this in a week, don’t do it. You have to run the numbers and the margins have to work because eventually. That has to add profit to your business and you have to pay yourself again. So even if you take a pay cut, even if the business takes a profit hit because now you have all these new expenses and now your time is being allocated elsewhere, you have to get back to paying yourself and you have to make sure you could allocate your time there.
So before you do that, because we’re not, we are not adding time to our workday. We’re not going past four. We’re not working before nine or ten. Absolutely not. We’re not working at on the weekends. We’re not working at night. We made room for our schedule in our schedule to do this. So that means before you do that, you go to the client side of your business and you tighten that ship up.
You make processes, you make templates, you make systems, you give yourself hours and hours and hours of back every single week so that you have time to do that because That side of the business has to make money and be profitable. The products have to make money and be profitable. And you have to take home a paycheck.
And that sounds like a lot of work when all you wanted to do was create a template. And that is true. And you can start by creating a template, but if you want that template to make you a lot of money, you got to run the numbers and you got to know what tech you need and what people you need and what marketing you need and what numbers you need.
And then you need to say, am I in this for the long run? Do I want to create the funnel? Do I want to create the audience or is this just going to be something that I have that when somebody asks me for it, I send them that and I make 97 a month and that’s not really going to make me any revenue at all.
And that is okay with me. Both of those things are true. Both of those things are fine. Neither one of those is bad. But you gotta pick one.
Colie: Yeah. I mean, so, guys, like, Brittany just gave us, like, a masterclass. And so, I want everyone who’s thinking about expanding their services to, number one, Figure out the purpose, because if you just want a little side money and you want to create it to give it to people when they ask, as Brittany said, that is a fine goal, but then you’re not going to take time away from the client side of your business in order to work significantly on this product side, if the product side is not ever going to turn a profit.
And one thing that Brittany said, and I’m just going to repeat it because it’s worth repeating. Before you start to allocate your time to the product side, you have to go to the client side. And not only do you have to make sure that your systems are tight and your processes, you have to make sure that the margins are there.
So if you are barely making profit on your client side, This is not the time for you to come expand your offer suite. You have to have a healthy profit margin on your client work to help pay for the time that it’s going to take for you to do the other side. And I will say, you guys have heard me talk about my virtual assistant.
Uh, Sarah is amazing. She is like a unicorn. Not only did I find a virtual assistant, I found someone that could actually help me with the client side of my business. So technically. There are a lot of things now that I can assign to Sarah and she’s doing those things while I’m currently working on my funnel and Improving my messaging and putting out new templates and doing all those kinds of things and guys I’m six months in and I’m still not making the money that I want to make I don’t know when this is gonna air But it is a long process.
So it is not something that you were gonna say. I have templates And hold up the sign and you know, you’re going to start getting, you know, what is it? Zero days? Like, I mean, I still have zero days guys on the product side of my business. So it’s not overnight success. Just like client work is not overnight success.
Neither is expanding your offer suite to products. Brittany, do you want to say anything in closing?
Brittany: I, I think like, I mean, one thing for me in order, because of my energy level, because of my ADHD, because of how slow I work, because of how meticulous I am with my client work and my copy chiefing, because of how deeply I support our students in order for me to make the switch and promote myself to CEO and have a product side of the business and a client side of the business for two years.
And this is a very recent change because I’m just. Just stepping back. I’ve minimized some stuff. I’m not stepping back from the business. I’m like, stepping back to look to look at things and just like thinking
Colie: like clarify.
Brittany: Yeah. Um, but for 2 years. I have a full time employee running the client side of the business, running the client communication and writing all of my first drafts.
That was the only way I could step back and become a CEO and then create the products of the business. That’s not everybody. I’m not saying you have to. That’s what I had to do. So this was not a like, I make so much money doing client work and so much money doing products. And then I just like put on a face mask and go to sleep at night.
Yeah, no. No, like I paid two full time salaries, mine and someone else’s for two years just to make that work and I’ve slowed down our client work for a little bit so that I can just like reexamine because I was getting really, really tired and, and I love the client work and I’m not willing to let it go.
So, anyway, the one thing that I think is so important that you cannot lose sight of is where are you getting your leads and how are you marketing to them? And how many leads do you need? Because if you’ve run the numbers on the product side and you need. Thousands, hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands, then stay very focused on that message and that marketing.
Of course, you can be creative and you can play and have fun. And I just mean focused in terms of like knowing what you’re selling and knowing what you’re saying and to who, but on the client side, if you only need. 10, 20, 5 clients a year to hit your goals and your numbers can be smaller if you’re trying to grow the product side of your business, then don’t talk to those people in the product marketing or whatever, like, go find those clients where they are, but don’t do both at the same time.
If, if they’re like, it doesn’t overlap, but just know who you’re talking to where and when. Don’t just go, I’m building an email list because someone with really shiny hair told me to build an email list, like, the shinier the hair, the more you should question them. I cannot say that enough.
Colie: Oh my gosh, guys, I hope that you have gotten a lot of great information out of Brittany in this episode, and I do want to say that that last little bit that she gave us is really segueing nice into next week’s episode with Elizabeth McCravey, where we
Brittany: Okay, she does have really shiny hair and you should trust her. Is that, that was the segue. No, you should trust her. Okay, that’s the
Colie: That wasn’t the segue that I thought you were going with, but next week, Elizabeth McCravey is going to tell us about how she expanded her offer suite from services and specifically how she continues to market to two very different audiences, always making sure that she knows who she’s talking to.
Brittany: I can’t wait to hear that because she’s super fucking smart.
Colie: Yes. Brittany, if people want to know where they can find you, I mean, I’m going to have that shit in the show notes, but I like for you to say it out loud anyway.
Brittany: Oh, I am terrible at Instagram, but you can always come say hi to me. I’m mainly on YouTube and my email list. That’s where we can talk the most. Transcribed
Colie: All right, everyone. That’s it for this episode. See you next time.