When it comes to expanding your reach and growing your audience, one of the best ways to do that is through borrowing audiences. Podcasts are one of the most powerful ways to do this while sharing your expertise and building relationships through collaborations. In today’s episode, podcast pitching pro Christina Lenkowski joins us to share why you should be pitching yourself for podcasts, what makes a great pitch, and how you can make the most out of your interviews!
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Guest Bio:
Christina Lenkowski is a forward-thinking podcast publicist and educator for entrepreneurs, speakers and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from “best-kept secret” to “go-to expert” in their industries through being a guest on other people’s podcasts.
In 2019, after 13 years working in the PR realm, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcasts did for her online-based business — since then she’s dedicated her work to helping other business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results.
She’s been a guest on over 50 podcasts, including Her Empire Builder, Proffitt Podcast and The Heather Sager Show, and helped her private clients get booked on over 400 top-rated shows, including Hello Seven with Rachel Rodgers, The Online Business Show with Tyler McCall, The Copywriter Club and Get Paid with Claire Pelletreau, among others.
Christina lives in Boise, Idaho, USA, with her husband and daughter.
Today’s episode is brought to you by my Client Hub Template inside the DIY Systems Template Shop. Business owners often have their client information spread across a variety of different tools, making it hard to access the information they need to make critical decisions. That’s why I built the Client Hub Template for Airtable, to take the guesswork out of building your own!
Here are the highlights…
[1:04] Get to Know Christina
[1:40] Why Podcast Guesting
[6:47] The Mistake You’re Making in Your Podcast Pitch
[8:25] Using the Same Pitch for Multiple Audiences
[10:29] What You Must Include in Your Pitch
[12:36] Knowing if You’re Ready to Outsource Pitching
[14:15] Vetting Pitching Agencies
[17:32] Research & Content
[18:40] Building Relationships with Hosts
[20:25] Monetizing Your Guest Episodes
[24:39] Nurture Strategically & Consistently Show Up
[30:37] Creating Realistic Expectations for Pitching
[36:10] Repurposing Your Podcast Guest Episodes
Mentioned in this Episode
043: How to Use Your Podcast as a Marketing Tool with Haylee Gaffin
084: Applying the Rule of 7 with Dayna Schaaf
Christina’s Quiz: https://www.publicityxchristina.com/quiz-landing-page
Connect with Christina
Website: publicityxchristina.com
IG: instagram.com/publicityxchristina
FB: facebook.com/publicityxchristina
Review the Transcript:
Colie: Has being on someone else’s podcast been on like your, I must do this in 2023 or 2024. That is what I am talking to today’s guest about. Hello, hello, and welcome back to the business first creatives podcast. I am here with Christina Linkowski, who is going to be telling us why guesting on someone else’s podcast is amazing and how you can make sure that your pitch is as good as it can get before you actually hit send on that email, Christina. Hello. And to Business First Creatives podcast.
Christina: Hello.
Colie: welcome the
Christina: podcast.
Thank you. I am so jazzed to be in front of your audience today. These are my people, creatives. Let’s get into it. Let’s talk about it. And I really want to get into how they can become even more visible and using one of the, you know, one of the easiest ways to be getting visible in front of other people’s audiences.
Colie: I mean, let’s just
start there. you. gave me a great soft
Christina: Well, thank you. Yeah.
Colie: So why is podcasting like an easy way to get visible? Like what makes podcasting as a guest easier than like the other mediums that we think about in terms of borrowing someone
else’s audience?
Christina: I love this question and there’s kind of a two, two part answer to it. So the first is that you literally just got to show up. You literally just got to show up. Now, of course, I’m talking about after you’ve done the pitch and you know, we’ll get into this and or if you work with an agency like mine and you have someone pitch for you, you literally just show up.
You know, you do a little research and then you’re kind of there, but. I have worked in PR for almost 20 years and in my 20 years of PR, I have narrowed down completely into only doing podcasts because I really believe in the power of them. I believe when you get to get in front of your ideal audience and tell your story and share your value and drive someone back to your.
whatever your email list, your social channels, et cetera, that is such a warm lead. That is someone that is ready to buy from you, to learn from you, et cetera. Like I said, I’ve worked in PR for a long time. I’ve done the print, I’ve done the TV, I’ve done the radio, I’ve done all these things, and I’m not here to say that they are not worth your time.
It’s great to get a fancy logo on your website to be doing this type of stuff, but a lot of times that’s just your ego. That’s just for your ego. That’s not actually what’s going to make you money. When I’m quoted in an article, like in a publication, no one’s going back to figure out more about me and XYZ.
They’re just reading the article. Right? When someone hears me in a podcast, they hear my story, they hear me talking, they hear me and Colie having this conversation, that’s when they’re like, Oh, I got to figure out how I can work with her, how I can learn from her, what I could do that would make, you know, make the most sense.
But they’re, they’re ready to go. They’re, they’re a really warm, hot lead. And all you have to do is have a genuine conversation.
Colie: And I will say, I only, I actually only really started listening to podcasts in like the last two
years. So I’m not afraid to admit that,
Christina: We’re in a safe space. Yeah.
Colie: I think of podcast listeners as like, kind of like your very own cult. I mean, I think that when you love someone’s podcast, like I look, I mean, Tuesday, let’s just say Tuesdays, two of my best friends drop their podcasts.
And when I’m taking the. Chloe to school in the morning on a Tuesday. Those are the first two podcasts that I listened to. Like, and it’s not just them because they’re my besties. I have come into contact with a lot of really great people through listening to their podcasts. And like, if you like what they say on one podcast, you are really very likely to hit that subscribe button and keep on listening.
And so. Like, if I love someone’s podcast and I’m listening to them, and let’s say that they’re doing a mix of solo episodes and guest episodes, I mean, every single one of their guests, as long as they have something valuable to say, I’m usually like going to their Instagram, looking at them, looking at their website, seeing what else it is that they have to offer.
I’m subscribing to their podcast. If they have one, I’m following them on Instagram, you know, whatever it is that I can do to show support, but also make sure that I am staying in like. Their world so that when they put their own messaging out, I can hear it. And so I didn’t really understand the power of that number one, until I started listening to podcasts.
And then once I got this podcast, I mean, like strangers will send me an Instagram and be like, okay, so I heard that podcast episode
with your virtual assistant and I just hired her.
Christina: Ah, great! Yeah, I love
Colie: like, this is amazing. So, I mean, there is such power in you pitching yourself to be a guest on someone’s podcast, them saying yes, and then them allowing you the privilege of being in front of their audience.
Because I also feel like we have a relationship. Like, if I don’t think someone has something valuable to present to my audience, There’s no way
that I am going to bring them on my show. Like, I want to
Christina: your, and your listeners know
that
Colie: you to listen to,
Christina: Your listeners know that. They’re like, if Colie brought someone on the show, I’m going to listen to them because she’s taken the time to vet that they’re going to be the right fit for me, that they’re going to bring value to me. So like you said, I’m the same way.
I listened to a podcast and I hear someone on there and I’m like, Oh dang, I got to go follow more of their stuff because I really like what they’re saying. I really like, you know, their personality or guess what? Sometimes I don’t. And that’s all right too. That’s perfectly okay. You know, that’s, that’s kind of the beauty of this work is that you’re going to repel and attract the people that you’re meant to.
Colie: Let’s talk about those podcast pitches, Christina. So, I have gotten some very bad ones recently. The funny thing is, I feel like for a while I wasn’t getting any pitches. And then I got a handful of pitches that were, you know, good. And then I got a lot that were really bad. And so before we get into like your service as the person who could pitch for someone else, what is like the number one thing that you see people doing in podcast
pitches that they should absolutely stop doing?
Christina: Just one, huh?
I, I think that there’s multiple things, but I think that the biggest thing is to not come with topics. Like fleshed out topics and what I mean by that is I think a lot of people think that they are making it easier on the host by saying, Hey, here’s the 4 or 5 things that I’m an expert in.
Let me bullet out. marketing, branding, whatever. And then you tell me what you want to talk about and I’m ready to talk about it. Okay. But that is making it very difficult for the host. That means that they are now having to come up with different topic ideas based around that, et cetera. And one thing way back for my days at Oregon state university going through journalism, you know, and everything like that is we want to make it as easy as possible to get to the yes.
So by. Putting really well thought out topics and you can. Hey, spoiler alert, you can talk about the same things. In fact, that’s what I want you to do on multiple shows. So it’s not like you’re having to come up with new topics every time, but you’re going to tailor it a little bit to that specific host and what their exact audience is.
But when we come with our topics, they’re a solid paragraph. Okay, they are, this is the, this is the thing that we want to talk about. Here’s a, maybe an example of that. Christina would love to have this conversation or whoever our client is would like to have this conversation, talk about it further. And for our hosts, that makes it so easy for them to say, yes.
Colie: Yes. Okay. And like talking about your topics, I do think that it was really good that you mentioned that you can actually talk about the same topics on multiple podcasts, because I feel like a lot of people think that that is like a faux pas.
Like, Oh, if I talked about this on business first creatives, I can’t turn around and talk about this on like the shoot it straight podcast. No. If we have two completely different audiences and this is your message, like this is the value that you bring, of course, you should talk about it on both podcasts.
I’ve actually listened to people on multiple podcasts and there was just one new thing that I learned and I was like, okay, I’m really glad that I listened to that. But like, people don’t shy away from listening to someone on different podcasts just because, oh, well, I’ve already heard them talk about that before.
I don’t know that people do that
People are not like, oh. I’ll just skip it this
Christina: I, I don’t
think so either. And I’ll tell you, Colie, like I have people that have reached out to me before that have like, well, I just heard you on my second podcast. I just heard you on my third podcast. And now I’m ready to see if we could hop on a call. Right. It’s that reminder to them. Maybe they have heard me before.
They really liked what I had to say, but they heard me again and they’re like, Oh, okay, now’s the time when I’m going to take action. Right. And so I love that you just reiterated that, which is, this isn’t like a, this isn’t like a daily newspaper, right? You don’t have to have a scoop. Like there’s no scoops involved.
We’re really out here trying to get the best message that we possibly can out to the right audiences for our business. And so you are going to be telling that same story, but that’s what gets that in people’s head. That is what makes you the expert in that particular thing that you do.
Colie: And the host guys, even if you’re coming with the same topic, I mean, I asked different questions than my besties do on the
Christina: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Colie: had the same guests. So, I mean, don’t think that just because you pitch this 1 topic to multiple podcasts and they all give you a yes. I mean, the conversation is going to be different because the host is different.
Um, so that’s the number 1 thing that you’re telling people. They should have a solid topic inside of
their inside of their email. Is there anything else?
Christina: hmm. Mm
Colie: Is there anything else that you are like, this is an absolute must have inside
of a podcast Yes, and that is, you guys, this is going to seem so basic, like you’re probably going to hear me say this and you’re going to be like, wow, mind blown. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of people don’t even use a host name in a pitch. And I think that this is such a, y’all can’t see that are listening, but, but Colie just gave her finger, not her finger, a good finger to me to say, yes, she didn’t just give me the finger, you know, finger to say, indicate yes, because there’s this thing that we call in the PR world, a spray and pray.
Christina: All right. And so what that is, is someone that takes just a pitch. And they do not personalize it at all. They just send it out to 100 people, right? Right off the bat. They literally just scour some host emails and they just send them out, send them out, send them out. Colie knows what I’m talking about.
I’m sure she’s gotten many of these. Take that time to literally find out the, the host name, the name of their show. Find this information out. And by the way, this is all very simple. stuff to find. You’re not going to have to search for it. You’re not going to have to be whatever. You can literally type into Apple podcasts, business first creatives, and Colie’s name is going to come in right under that.
Okay. So this literally takes two seconds, three seconds, but it astounds me the number of people that do not make these little efforts, little efforts to make their pitch even more personalized.
Colie: we’re going to jump into like podcast pitching and then when you should consider hiring someone to do this for you. So Is there a point where someone has certain goals for visibility, or is there a certain level of business where people should be like, okay, it’s time for me to do this, you know, podcast tour.
I have a good message. I want to get it out there, but I don’t know if I should do this. I should maybe look at someone like Christina and her agency to do this for me. Like, What is the tipping point? What is, is there a metric or is there like a thing that you can look at
to be like, okay, maybe I
should hire this out.
Christina: Yeah, I think that this is a great question. And I want to give the caveat that it does vary for sure. But I would say that for the majority of people, they’ve, they’ve already made a quite a bit of money. So they’re already at a point where there may be at multiple six figures, you know, 500 K and even a million for multiple of our clients.
And they’re like, I have built this business being really good at what I do. I have built this business being really good, you know, referrals, word of mouth, my marketing, et cetera, but now I’m needing to get in front of new people. Now I’m needing to get in front of new audiences. And so they know that their product sells.
They know that who their ideal audience or audiences are. We definitely have clients that have a couple different audiences. That’s fine. And they’re just ready to basically just show up. Every single one of our clients, I know I kind of joked about it earlier, but that’s where they’re at in their business.
You know, they’re at the point where they’re like, I don’t have the time to do this pitching and research, and I don’t know the, the shows and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. That is where we absolutely step in and we’re like, we got you. Don’t worry. We’re going to take this all off your hands and you literally show up, drop your amazing knowledge, network with that host, share the episode, of course, when it goes live, and I want you to repurpose that and we can talk about that more, but. They’re at the point where they’re ready to just have the easy button on their visibility and their business.
Colie: You guys didn’t see me, but I’m like, ding. I love easy buttons. I love easy buttons for almost anything guys. And I will say being on the other end of, cause I’ve gotten some like, Most of the bad pitches that I’m getting, I will admit they’re not from individuals, they’re from agencies, and I’m not going to say like
yours, because your pitches were definitely different than some
Christina: But they are agencies at 100%. Yeah.
Mm
Colie: And so I feel like there are two different kinds of agencies that you can go for. I feel like some of them are doing the spray and pray, to be honest, like, even though they’ve gone with an agency, like, some of the pitches that I’m getting, again, don’t have my name in them. When I read the bio that they’ve given me, I’m like, How in the world do they think they go on my podcast?
I’m like, okay, so, you know, I just move it over to the never going to be seen again folder. So Christina, I have gotten two pitches from your, , agency and both of them were fabulous. Cause clearly you’re sitting here and you were one of them and the client that they pitched, I’m actually intending to invite on for like Q1 because her topic was financial.
And so that’s going to be amazing. But one of the things that I really like in a pitch. is if they are referencing a previous episode or if they are indicating like how their pitch is differentiated from someone else that’s been on my podcast in the same type of topic. And so how much time or what is your process in terms of doing research for your clients?
Like how do you make sure that your client is a
good fit for like my podcast or whoever you’re pitching?
Christina: Absolutely. So really it is that it is research. We are looking at the show and we’re kind of going back in there and seeing, okay, like, for instance, you talked about the, maybe you had someone or maybe you had someone on that was already had talked about podcast guesting. Right? And so, and that definitely happens.
There’s absolutely shows that I’ve been a guest on where they have had someone on before that talks about that. So in our research, we see that we’re like, Oh, okay. They’ve had so and so on to talk about this. So in our pitch, I referenced that. We, we would say at that point, Hey, you know, Hey, Colie. I was actually listening to one of your recent episodes with XYZ.
I really loved how you guys talked about the benefits of podcast guesting. What I would love to do is come on your show and take your guests to the next level. So what to do during the interview to make them, you know, have the best impact, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s all about, in my opinion, Calling it out.
So they know, Oh, you’ve actually paid attention. You see that I’ve had someone on that’s talked about this, but that doesn’t mean that this topic is done. That doesn’t mean that we can’t talk about this anymore. We just need to come from a different angle with it. Now I have a couple of caveats with that one being, if it’s only been a month or two, I’d wait a little bit.
Before sending that email, I’d wait till you were probably like six months out from that other person being on the show. Again, if it’s like directly the same thing that you do, if you’re complimentary to that, meaning let’s say like, Colie had someone on that was a podcast producer and they were on to talk about, hey, here’s how you start your own show, et cetera.
That’s not a competition for me. That’s not us talking about the same things. So that’s perfectly fine for me to be pitching and still reference that. Right? So, Hey, I saw you had so and so on and they’re a podcast producer talking about this. I’d actually love to come and talk to your listeners about why guesting on other people’s shows is equally as important as having your own.
Yes. Love that. Yes. Mm
Colie: Tying things together. Christina, that is what I have been working on. The more that I have this podcast, I’m loving bringing people together. Who are similar topics, but not directly in competition so that when my listeners listen to like one episode and then the next week, there’s an episode that takes that topic even further.
And then another 1, like, I have found that that’s when my guests take the most action after listening to an episode, so I’m really happy that you mentioned that because I do think it’s important if you have. Like for myself, you just said that. So I’m going to say, Hey, the last podcast person that I had on was my podcast manager, Haylee.
I don’t know what, what episode it is. I’ll look it up and put it in the show notes, but she didn’t talk about guesting, which is good because then if I put her in the show notes for this, they can see that there are two episodes, both about podcasts, but that are related and they can get more, they can just get something else from
listening to that other episode if they haven’t
Christina: Yes. I love that. And I think like that complimentary work is so amazing and it’s also what’s so amazing for your networking with the hosts. I think that this is a big thing that people overlook with podcast guesting, but some of the best stuff that our clients say to us like time and time again is, One of the best parts about being, working with us and best part about being on all these shows is those relationships with the hosts.
And I think that that’s so important because a lot of times the hosts that we work with are complementary to the clients, right? Or for me, you know, like Colie, she has a complementary audience to what I’m looking to do. And so it’s a miss for you to just think that you’re going to do the interview, hit end on record, and never to be seen from again.
Right. This is something that you want to grow that relationship. You want to have a real conversation because hosts can be some of the best affiliate partners, promotional partners. On shows that I, guest in, I speak in their groups a lot. or I might be invited to be at a summit, something like that.
So there are a lot of different opportunities there with the hosts. And so I want to make sure that your listeners don’t sleep on that because that is a really, really important thing too.
Colie: I’m going to say something about the hosting part because I have two things that I just really love. Number one, if you’re an amazing guest, please know that I email all of my friends that have podcasts and tell them, Hey, Christina was just on my show and
she was talking about this and I don’t think that you’ve had someone talk about this
Christina: Oh, I
Colie: Here’s her email. You should reach out. I do that all the time. I mean, and then I’m so happy when I’m listening to one of my friends podcasts and I’m like, Oh my
God, they invited that person on the show.
Christina: No pressure. I hope that email goes out after our call.
Colie: mean, I mean, no
Christina: Jeez.
Colie: are awesome. The second thing that I want to say that was directly tied to what you were talking about is monetizing your podcast guest episodes.
So let’s talk about that.
There, you know, you go on a podcast for free. Sometimes they let you share a freebie. Sometimes they let you share a paid offer. Both. are possible. You just need to know which one is your host’s preference before you try to pitch something. But like, is that something that your agency does?
Or does your clients come to you with like an offer that they say, okay, well, this is what I want to pitch. Or do
you help them kind of like, okay.
Christina: Both. We have clients that come to us that are definitely like, This is the offer that I, that I want to have. Like, I want to have. You know, my all the, all the work that I’m doing right now, I want it to go towards this specific offer, but we’re still going to come up with some kind of call to action, right?
We’re still going to come up with something that’s going to nurture that client into there, even if it’s something like a free webinar, right? Something that’s something that’s free. We have a client, I know you know her, Liz Wilcox, or she was a long time client of ours, and we love her to death, and one thing that she does that I think is really smart is she has people sign up for her freebie, but then they immediately start getting nurtured into her membership, and her first email, I just always love to share this email subject line, because I think it’s just the greatest thing, but it’s like, hey, can I have 9?
And that has a huge, I know, it’s so good, it’s so good. She has like an over, I want to say like over 50 percent or something like that conversion from that email. And so that’s what we really want to have is like be offering them something to get you to get them in your world, right? To join your e newsletter list, to start following you on social, et cetera, but that nurturing and that sales can start right away.
That isn’t something that you necessarily just have to wait on or anything like that. We also have clients, that come to us with different ideas. It’s like, one was like. We’ve done it a couple of times since then, but this was her first idea. She was like, what is, I have a book, right? I have a book that I wrote, but I kind of just want to use my book as top of funnel, right?
Like I know once people read the book, then they’re more interested in working with me in other areas, et cetera, et cetera. I was like, that sounds great. So what she did was for like the first 50 people off of a podcast that signed up for it, they just had to pay shipping and handling. You know, and then she would send them the book and, uh, that was a really great way for her to get really solid lead.
She knew that that book would convert into bigger sales and stuff like that if she just. Did it in that way. And so I think that you can be really, really creative about what your call to action is and kind of what those thoughts are from there. But do not sleep on it and do not sleep on having a nurture sequence on the back end.
So that you can be continuing to get those to convert those leads. 2 after the interview.
Colie: And guys, as your resident systems person, I’m going to jump in and I’m going to say there are a couple of things that I really want you to do. If you’re going to be a guest on someone’s podcast. Number 1, it’s okay to share the same freebie over and over
Christina: Oh, yes.
Colie: you should have a way of figuring out which podcast they came from.
Guys, as a systems person, I went on like 10 podcast interviews and didn’t do this. So then I couldn’t tell where anybody was coming from. I mean, you can tell if they’re opting in, you know, the day after the interview, you can assume they came from that, but like long term, you have no idea what your return on investment is for any individual one of your podcast interviews.
If you are not tracking on the back end where they came from, and it’s as simple as making a different opt in. Labeling it with that podcast and then giving that podcast host that link versus another link so that you can see in like ConvertKit or Flowdesk or whatever it is where your people came from.
The second thing that I want to say is that you should make sure that whatever your call to action is, it’s related to what you spoke about on the podcast. But it’s also related to what you want them to do after they do the call to action. Like, it doesn’t make sense. If your call to action is about topic a, but then in your nurture sequence, you’re trying to sell them something on a completely different
Christina: hmm. Mm hmm.
Colie: So, as Christina said, nurture,
but nurture with purpose
Christina: Nurture strategically. I mean, that’s the same thing with, like, the shows you’re getting on. And what I mean by that is, like, I have people come up to me a lot at events. Like, I speak at something and they come up to me afterwards and they’re like, Yeah, I don’t know. I’ve, like, been on a couple podcasts and…
Colie: and…
It hasn’t done
Christina: just really hasn’t like done anything for me
and so I don’t know that that really works and I always have multiple follow up questions for
this and yeah, you know, I do girl, but the first question that I always ask is like. Were you getting in front of your ideal audience? Because for a lot of people, the answer is no.
And that’s something that they might not have realized. They get asked to be on a friend’s show, they get asked to be on a client’s show. By the way, I’m not anti doing those things. Like, they can be great practice, they can be fun, a hundred percent. Like, I think they’re great if you have the time to do it, but you can’t expect it to move the needle in your business.
You cannot expect to have people become customers when they randomly heard you on some show that is not full of your ideal audience, right? Like, I’ve been on a couple shows, for instance, I’m type 1 diabetic. So I’ve been on a couple shows before that kind of talk about Having diabetes or having an autoimmune disease and you know, X, Y, Z, those were great for me to do.
I enjoyed doing them, but I don’t expect for them to bring me money. You know what I mean? Like I don’t expect for that to happen in that way. The other question or the other thing that I really like to ask people is how many shows? How many? And they don’t have to know the exact amount, but typically they’ll be like three or four.
You know, whatever. Okay. So when are, okay, so when, like, all right,
Colie: We’re so bad, Christina!
Christina: know, I know, but
I got to teach the people. I got, I got them. I got to get them to know. When we work with our clients, we work with them for a year and over that year, we guarantee that we’ll get them books on at least 24 podcasts. And I know that some of you that might be listening, they’re like, Oh my God, 24 podcasts.
Yes. Yes. Because you need to be consistently getting that message out there over and over and over again. Get that momentum going in your business, get really crystal clear on your messaging. That is a huge, huge part of the work that we do, you know, cause sometimes people come to me and they’re like, I’ll be like, Oh, so like, what shows are you interested in being on?
And they’ll be like, I don’t know, just like Joe Rogan or whatever. I’m like, like, okay, like you haven’t even been on a podcast. Like let’s, let’s get out onto some, some shows.
Colie: a little
Christina: Let’s aim here. That doesn’t mean you can’t have big goals. I am a big fan of having big goals. Absolutely. But we got to take the steps to get there.
We got to make sure that you’re really clear on your message that you know what topics resonate with people that happens with our clients. Sometimes they think that they know what topic really resonates, and it turns out that it might be something different that people are really, really responding to.
And I think that that’s important to realize. So get out there. And I always like to say publicity is like ice. Transcripts And what I mean by that is before ice freezes, all this stuff is happening under the surface that we don’t see. We don’t see it with our human eye. All we see is when that ice freezes and publicity is a lot like that.
You are going to show up. over here, over here, over here, all these different places getting in front of your ideal audience. Everyone’s not going to see every single thing that you’re doing, but you know that you’re doing it. And then boom, that ice is going to freeze and you become the expert in what it is that you do.
And that’s because you’ve been showing up all over the place, doing your thing, posting about it, getting the word out there. That’s the way that publicity really works.
Colie: So, I had an episode where it was a marketing episode and
her name is Dana Schaaf. She actually works for Annamie Tonkin, who I
Christina: Oh, yes, yes.
Colie: yeah, her marketing manager. Um, so she was on my podcast and she was talking about the rule of seven and until you started talking Christina, I never realized that has to apply to podcasts too.
So if you’re really expecting someone to see you on one or two podcasts and take that action, that’s just not how the world works. If we use the rule of seven that we talked about on that previous episode, which I will have linked in the show notes, that means you need at least seven podcast episodes to the same audience that perhaps has crossover before you actually start to see some momentum.
Something going towards whatever it is that your end goal is. Christine, I cannot believe I hadn’t put that together before now, but yes, two and three and four podcasts is not enough. Also, you mentioned the realistic, everyone needs to have realistic expectations,
Christina: Yes.
Colie: and I think that we wouldn’t be doing our due diligence if we didn’t tell people, this is definitely a long term strategy.
This is not, you go on one podcast episode that airs next month and all of a sudden the sales roll in. Like. Like Christina said, it may take a few podcast guest episodes to get it going. And so if you are booking, let’s say two a month, and that’s, you know, that’s pretty optimistic. If you’ve never been on a podcast and you’re not having someone pitch for you.
Um, but I mean, that’s like what 12 podcast episodes in six months. And you might have to still wait a little bit of time to see the returns from those
ones. So Making sure you know where people come from and having realistic expectations not only on how long it’s going to take but also making sure that the audience that you’re getting in front of is the one that needs to hear your message, is the one that actually needs whatever your offer is, whatever your
service is.
Christina: Absolutely. And I think when it comes to realistic to, really knowing the time that it’s going to take if you do decide that you’re going to pitch yourself, So I really am overwhelmed when I have to do something weekly, even monthly, that can really just become, suddenly I shut down. I’m just like, I can’t do this.
I don’t know that I, you know, it just keeps getting pushed to the back burner over and over and over again. So, the way that I really, this is a hot tip, hot tip from Christina that I’m dropping on here, but no big deal. But the way that I really recommend, if you kind of feel overwhelmed at all, this is to pitch once a quarter.
And what I, what I do with that is I block off a whole day. So I take one whole day in my business, a quarter, block it all the way off. So nothing else can get put in there. You don’t have other stuff that you’re going to be doing. You know, you’re gonna drop off the kid at school. If you’re like me, you’re going to come home, you’re going to work until you got to go do that pickup, right?
So you’re going to take that time and that is just when you’re going to do your pitching. Okay. So you’re already going to have a pitch template ready to go. You’re going to hopefully have some research done, but some of that day can be devoted to that. And then you’re going to be sending off a bunch of pitches, just get in that mode to do that with the goal of that day of pitching yielding six yeses, right?
Six shows that you can be on to your point, trying to do that to a month average. So with the knowledge that some months might have four, some months might have one, you know what I mean? Like. That’s just kind of the way that it goes. It doesn’t have to be very strict on like to this one to this month to this month, but with that knowledge of like, okay, over the next year, I want to get on 24 podcasts and I will say that like, that’s a big thing.
I’m trying to push for people right now is 24 and 24. Your business will look different. Look at me. Your business will look different at the end of 2024. If you have been on 24 podcasts. I can guarantee it. And, I’m not here to say that it’s what it’s gonna do in your business, but I am here to say that your business will have shifted.
It will have changed when you have that kind of momentum behind you. Mm-hmm.
Colie: And I will say, guys, I mean, this is just me putting it out because every once in a while, I get questions about hosting a podcast. They’ll be like, Colie, well, what’s your return on investment for hosting the podcast? And I tell people, I spend 12, 000 a year to produce this podcast for you guys. Between the time that it takes
me.
Paying my podcast manager, paying my virtual
Christina: Yeah. Absolutely.
Colie: a year, and I will tell you, I have still not made as much money off of this podcast as I have
being a guest on other podcasts. So, for any of
Christina: know, I love to hear that. Yeah.
Colie: I mean, for any of you that are thinking to yourself, Oh, well, no, I need a podcast in order to like monetize my speech.
You don’t, I mean, but again, I have a system for like tracking where, where people coming into my business, what podcast they came from, and then attributing their sales to their client record. I have a big, huge
Christina: I love that. I love
Colie: like, Cause I want to know, I mean, it’s not just for podcast guesting. I mean, I track this for when I speak in people’s memberships, which you already mentioned, like every speaking engagement that I do.
And I consider a podcast guest episode to be a speaking engagement, but every single one of those, I want to know what the return on investment was because let’s say that I go on someone’s podcast. And no one signs up for my freebie.
Christina: hmm.
Colie: Is that about me? Is it about them? Is it maybe that the message that I put out wasn’t as strong a topic as one that I put out on, on someone else’s?
Well, I don’t know, but if I can’t see on the backend that absolutely no one signed up for my freebie off of this episode, I will never have
the knowledge to know that I need to go do my research
Christina: I think that’s a, I love that. And I think that’s a really great point. And the other flip side of that is there, there are going to be podcast interviews that are going to It’s kind of a crass way to put it, but like, you’re gonna have one night stands and you’re gonna have a long term relationship. And, uh, what I mean by that is that some hosts you’re going to really hit it off with, and that’s going to be the beginning of a beautiful relationship where you guys are helping promote each other, you’re teaching each other’s group, you know, XYZ, and there’s going to be other people that you’re going to go on their show, it’s still valuable, you’re still getting in front of your ideal audience, that’s still content that you can still be repurposing, absolutely, 100%, but that might just be it.
You’re still going to thank them. You’re still going to be sharing the episode XYZ, but it may not move further than that. And I think that that’s a good thing to put off kind of the backend of what you were just saying, Colie, which is like, sometimes you’re going to see results from these shows and other shows.
You might not, you know, sometimes you’re going to have them pop off. Like, sometimes you’re going to be a show. You’re gonna be like, Oh dang, that was like amazing. Like I went on that show and I got so many leads off that, like so many people that got into my email, people DMing me, et cetera. And then you’re going to have some shows where it’s going to come out and you’re going to be like. Sad trombone, you know what I mean? And so I think that, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I think that that, when you talk about expectation setting, I think that’s really important for you to realize too, is like, that’s why we do so many shows. That’s why we want to be so, you know, consistent with the work that we’re doing with the knowledge that some aren’t maybe going to yield the results that we were hoping they were going to, but we have all these other ones that have had a great return for us.
So we know that our time has not been wasted.
Colie: I mean, that’s a really good point about the relationships, Christina, because some of the best people that I’ve had on my podcast where people, I was a guest on their podcast first. And so we already built a relationship. We knew that we liked each other. I mean, and listening audience, you guys have heard a few of them.
I mean, these are the repeats that I have on my podcast. There is, there’s a reason why Dan comes on this podcast every six months. I could talk to him
Christina: I love
Colie: we’re digressing. Christina, let’s talk about repurposing. How? What is the most effective way to repurpose
your guest episode from someone else’s podcast?
Christina: Oh, I love this question because I truly think that by guesting on shows, when it comes to content creation, you’re standing at the top of the mountain and you just roll the snowball down and all this stuff is going to come from that. And what I mean by that is every single episode that you do can be repurposed into so many things.
There’s, of course, social media snippets that you can be putting on there. You can either be doing audio snippets. You could be doing pull quotes. So that’s something that’s really nice to do, really easily shareable for people, in that way as well. of course I want you sharing in your e newsletter, you know, your website, all that type of good stuff.
But one of the most underutilized ways, or one of the ways that I really think people should be using it more, and I actually need to be better about this myself, I’ll be completely honest, is taking each episode and turning it into a blog. and backlinking in that blog. Because that is a really great way when someone types into Google or they type into SEO, type into SEO.
I’m an SEO expert and type into Google, nailing it. They type into that, that SEO work from having all the backlinks and the blog and stuff like that is a really, really great thing. Like, if I was to say to you truthfully, for me at least, like if you’re going to do nothing else, make them blogs. And so that’s what I would really have on there and included in that blog.
And then the other thing that I would have on those blog posts is an edited transcript that makes it really easy for those that might be hearing impaired or anyone else that prefers to learn that way, that that’s there for them to be able to have as well.
But that’s something that you can have in your own power. You know what I mean? Don’t necessarily rely on the host for that. You as a guest have the power to be just running that through auditor editing it. You know, you can do that. A VA can do that, et cetera, but have that in that blog post as well, or have a link to that as well there.
Colie: Absolutely. And Christina, I literally, I’m mind
blown. I have never blogged a guest episode.
Christina: Oh yeah, do it, do it.
Colie: I mean, I can’t believe that I’ve never thought to do that. I mean, and maybe it’s just me with like my old brain. Maybe I have actually blogged one of my episodes from Annemie’s podcast. I mean, that, that would actually, it was more than three years ago.
I might’ve done my first one, but like, really, I’m not even going to give myself that kind of credit. I don’t think I’ve ever blogged a guest episode, but now
I know what I’m perhaps going to have Sarah do sometime
Christina: amazing thing for a VA or
something like that to be helping you with, you know, is to have them just do a blog. It doesn’t need to be long. It doesn’t need to be whatever, but you know, be putting in there, be back linking, be talking about the episode a little bit, you know, stuff like that. That’s going to move the needle in my opinion, than even other, those other areas that I talked
Colie: Mm hmm. And I will say, guys, I mean, I know most of the listening audience has seen my Instagram feed. What I will do for Christina is the same thing that I do for everyone else. I take this, this episode, I throw it into Descript, my podcast manager edits it, and she selects the best Under 60 second clips that we can turn into the social media content that I put on Instagram.
And of course, when I put these from this episode, I will, of course, tag Christina and every single one. I also send them to my, to my guests. Now, sometimes I forget and some of my guests are like, Hey, Colie, can I get a download of that? And I’m like, absolutely. You should have already gotten one. I’m sorry.
I’ve been out of town, but. In general, I try to throw all of the assets that I create inside of a folder and I send it to my guests
so that if they
want to include something in their email newsletter,
Christina: they should, by the
Colie: Yeah. And they want to post it on their own Instagram account, whatever it is that they want to use it for.
I am more than happy to provide those assets because what I was doing before I had my own podcast, I had hired this agency. And what they would do is you could send them long form content, whether it was you teaching. Your Instagram lives or your podcast guest episodes, I would send them to this agency and they would watch all of them.
And then they would grab like the nuggets from all of them. They would make them into the pull quote cards. They would make me videos and they would send it to me every month to put on my Instagram and stuff. I
mean, that was the best they, they’re not doing it anymore. That agency
Christina: I was like, girl, I was like, you got to share that info with
Colie: I mean, I would, but they’re not open anymore. So, I mean, now that’s what I have Sarah do. That is now Sarah’s job. But no, and I want to just say one more thing because as a host, I would never be offended if someone wanted me to give them either a full copy of the episode or something so that they could repurpose.
So, if you’ve ever had, and I have also asked people for this guy. So this is me talking from the other side of the microphone. I have reached out and asked people, Hey, that was a super awesome podcast episode. I know that you don’t show the video or maybe they do. I’m like, I know you don’t provide the video, but can I have a copy of it?
So that my virtual assistant can repurpose some of it for myself. And I always ask. Do you mind if we include a clip of you? Because there are some
Christina: I think that’s great. yeah,
Colie: yeah, where the host
asked you a question and you kind of need that in order
Christina: Yeah, you need the frame of reference. Yeah,
exactly
Colie: if they don’t feel comfortable, I always
say, that’s fine.
I will just use the question as
Christina: Have you ever had them not be comfortable? I would. I would say to you guys, like, I think it’s great to, I a hundred percent agree to ask that, ask that question, but I’m here to tell you that host wants their episode shared as much as they possibly can. So I’ve had people ask me that before. They’re like, well, I don’t understand how I can make snippets.
It’s not my content, it’s not my episode. 100%. You’re still gonna give credit. Right, when you share those snippets, when you share this and that, I’m always tagging the host. I’m always saying what show, you know, this is from, or that was on, et cetera. So I think it’s fantastic to ask a question in that scenario, et cetera, but also know that I can’t even imagine a scenario where that host would say, no.
Colie: I
mean, and I think initially the only reason that I would ask, well, number
Christina: I think it’s good to ask. I think it’s good. Yeah, I’m, I’m pro asking. Yes.
Colie: Yeah, but also, I mean, I would say if you get a no, it probably doesn’t have anything to do with you guys. It’s that the host records video and
they are not what they would call like video ready.
I mean, I, I personally don’t care. Like, I mean, I have a dress on for you. My hair
is washed and combs, but that’s just a
Christina: a step ahead of
Colie: I would have just as easily showed up with like my
Christina: Oh, like my mom bun. Like, uh, like I’m rocking.
Colie: I rock one like six of seven days a week. So, you know, I’m right there with you.
But that would be the only reason that I would see someone saying no. But honestly, by the time you ask them and the episode comes out and you’ve repurposed it, even if they weren’t feeling great
about being on the camera that day, that’s probably passed by
Christina: Yes. 100%. and the only other thing, and not that I don’t really see this happening, but like, the only thing I would say is if you were putting it behind a pay wall. Right. So if you were like, I’m going to take this interview and I’m going to drop it into my membership, that’s a paid membership, that is something that I, that a host could definitely say no to.
Absolutely. 100%. I don’t think that that’s really happening very often. I think, I, I think that that’s, I don’t really see that being an issue, but I was just going to say that would be the other thing that you would definitely want to check with the host on.
Colie: Yeah, absolutely. Christina. I mean, if nothing else, I learned that I need to go blog my guest episodes that I’ve previously been on. But if the listening audience wants to know more about you, your agency, your offers,
tell them where they can find you on the internet.
Christina: Come find me at podcastpublicityquiz. com. I’ll make sure that Colie has that for the notes down below, but it is a really fun, interactive quiz that can just help you determine what might make the most sense, for you moving forward, whether that’s doing it yourself, pitching yourself, or perhaps it’s having an agency like ours pitch on your behalf.
Colie: Guys, definitely pitch yourself to be on podcast and the first one might feel rough, but I promise after the first
one, it gets, it doesn’t get easier. I will tell you
Christina: It absolutely gets easy. The, there’s pitching, you know, there’s pitching yourself and there’s also being a guest and making sure that, you know, also know that when you get those yeses, the first couple of interviews, you’re going to sweat through, you’re going to sweat your mind. You’re like, Oh my gosh, like, am I doing
Colie: It’s totally normal to take a shower
Christina: is a hundred percent normal. It is 100 percent normal. And that is actually one thing I’ve had multiple clients say to me is they’re like, one of the biggest things is like, I’m so crystal clear. Like, I feel so comfortable in front of a mic. Now, whereas like before I started this work, I would just get so nervous, so clammy, et cetera.
But once you’ve done this, because y’all are going to do it 24 times in 2024, we’re making that deal, right? We’re making that deal.
So once you’ve done it, you know, after three, four times, it’s going to be, it’s going to be nothing to you. You’re going to feel a lot more comfortable. You’re going to, you’re going to feel really good about doing this type of work.
Colie: especially if you’re getting your message across guys. Yeah. All right, everyone. I hope that you have gotten
something from this episode, and if you didn’t, you weren’t listening, so
Christina: Ha ha ha!
Colie: it and listen to it again. That’s it for this episode. See you next time.
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