Beyond our careers, we’re real humans experiencing real obstacles in our lives. Katrina joins us to share how a boudoir session helped her overcome a really dark and insecure time in her life, encouraging her to do the same for other women. Plus, listen in as she highlights how she’s been awarded a few grant opportunities and why other creatives need to apply too!
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Guest Bio:
Katrina Cross-Daniels, CEO and Founder of Katrina Cross Photography and Katrina Cross Boudoir. I celebrate women who are in a space to embrace their strength and beauty. Empowerment coach and educator from Metro Detroit, Mi area.
Today’s episode is brought to you by my Client Hub Template inside the DIY Systems Template Shop. Business owners often have their client information spread across a variety of different tools, making it hard to access the information they need to make critical decisions. That’s why I built the Client Hub Template for Airtable, to take the guesswork out of building your own!
Find it Quickly:
00:24 – Meet Katrina
02:10 – The Journey to Boudoir and Wedding Photography
03:51 – Overcoming Personal Challenges Through Boudoir
05:56 – Balancing Boudoir and Wedding Photography
06:33 – Navigating Studio Spaces for Boudoir Photography
09:51 – The Power of Repeat Clients and Referrals
13:36 – Exploring Small Business Grants
16:57 – Tips for Successful Grant Applications
28:25 – Katrina’s Upcoming Boudoir and Portrait Workshop
Mentioned in this Episode
Episode 70: Know Your Purpose with LaJune King
Connect with Katrina
Website: katrinacrossphotography.com
Instagram: @katrinacrossphotography
Workshop: eventshare.link/clicktoelevate
Review the Transcript:
Colie: Hello. Hello. And welcome back to the business first creatives podcast. I am interviewing someone, Katrina cross Daniels. She has been in like my circle of photography friends, um, for years, and we keep meeting each other, seeing each other at photography conferences. And I was finally like, uh, Katrina, when are you going to come on the podcast and talk about all these great things that you do?
Because she has a couple of things that I think are very unique about her. And I want her to talk to you guys about them today. Katrina, welcome to the podcast.
Katrina: Well, thank you. you talked about your podcast. I was like, oh, yeah, I definitely got to get on this podcast. So I’m excited to be here.
Colie: So why don’t you tell the listening audience where you’re located and what kind of photography you do?
Katrina: Okay. I am located in Detroit, Michigan. So I am, a boudoir and wedding photographer. I also do a little portraits, but boudoir is the specialty.
Colie: Let me ask you a question. Do those seem to be completely separate brands for you, or do you have some crossover between brides who want boudoir and boudoir clients who, when they get married, come back to you for their wedding?
Katrina: It is definitely a crossover. I tried to do them separately at one point and I did discover. That my wedding clients that hey, there’s a thing called bridal boudoir. it was like, oh, okay So let’s try this out. Let’s do this bridal boudoir That could be something that you can give to your husband And a lot of the ladies like to do that and they actually do Get an album of their boudoir session and that’s the gift that they give the groom on the wedding day So it crosses over and it turns out to be an awesome thing
Colie: Okay. how did you choose those two genres? Cause you haven’t always done boudoir and wedding. You’ve done a lot of things. So how did you zone in on these two specialties for your business?
Katrina: Okay, I’m gonna try to not make it as too long But basically when I started off as photography, I was that mom with a camera my son plays sports and I was a sports mom going to every school event doing the football and basketball. And then one day someone asked me, Oh, I see you always here with your camera.
I have a wedding coming up. Is it possible that you can shoot my wedding? And I was like, Oh, I don’t do weddings. And, um, I said, I’ve never shot a wedding. so the person was kind of like loving the work that I was doing with the sports photography. And she just, Assume that I can do it. I can handle it.
So I was like, okay, why not? Let’s try it out um, and I shot her wedding and I did make some mistakes. It wasn’t like everything didn’t go perfect, but it was enough for me to discover that I did have a love for weddings. It was something about the hustle and bustle and all the different things that was just happening that I was like, I want to do this again.
And so I shot a few more weddings and. And that was the history of wedding photography. Far as the boudoir, I always had something in the back of my mind that thought about it. And I would probably say about four years before I actually started doing it, I did shoot a boudoir session. It was just me trying to get my, my toes wet in the, in the field, but then I never did go far with it.
Forward, I went through some things in my own personal life, which wasn’t pleasant, but it was still adverse adversities that, you know, life habits, right? So I went through an unexpected divorce. I was married 25 years and all of a sudden one day I was just told like that was it. And when I say every insecurity about me surfaced.
in that moment that it made me start having all kind of self doubt, low self esteem, my confidence was not great. And I was like, wow, like I’m sure that there’s other women that’s feeling like what I’m feeling like and been through the things that what I’m currently going through. was a couple of photographers In the industry that I looked up to that they were the only two people that had shared a similar story.
I haven’t heard a lot of photographers at that time talking about going through a divorce as a photographer, I reached out to both of them and they were so supportive in me. just helped me get through that hurdle, right? Because I had to, this was in the month of June when this happened, had to go shoot multiple weddings in June.
So, where my heart is breaking and I’m going through our kind of things, they kind of helped me through that. so I decided to. my own boudoir session. I needed that uplift. I wanted to see what it felt like. I wanted to offer this to other women, but I couldn’t do it unless really went through the process myself.
I did. And when I say it was an amazing feeling, I still was overcoming some things, but I felt a little bit better about myself. You know, I didn’t feel as low and I was like, Oh, I am beautiful. Or that’s me. I can look like that. And I just, At that moment, it was a done deal. I said, other women need to experience what this feels like when they are in their lowest moments.
And even if they’re in a high moment and they just need to feel better or they just want to do something different. So boudoir became my jam.
Colie: Okay. I mean, I didn’t know that about your story, so I just want to say, I love you. And I’m so happy that you took. You know, what was a, a hard moment for you and turned it into an empower moment, not only for yourself, but like for your clients and your business as a whole today in 2025, what percentage of your business is coming from weddings and what percentage of your business is coming from boudoir?
Katrina: I would probably say it’s a 60, 40, probably 60 boudoir and 40 wedding.
Colie: Nice. Now, do you shoot the majority? Because you have a studio and I feel like I always want to say when people have studios, when they come on the podcast, because running a studio and owning a studio is like a whole different feat in itself. So, do you do the majority of your boudoir sessions in your studio?
Or are you doing a lot of them on location? Oh,
well,
Katrina: update. I’ve had a studio for a few years. And last year, I no longer have that studio. But I’m in the middle of getting a new studio next month.
Colie: Oh, exciting. Is this a studio that you are building from the ground up or is it something that’s already in existence and you’re just like slapping some paint on there? Cause you know, we both know the June and when the June came on here, she spilled all the details about her studio. And I was just like, no, that is not for me.
Katrina: It is not a studio from the ground up. It’s a studio. It’s a space that’s already existing and I am just going to go in and it’s already kind of like white box. I don’t have to do a whole lot of work, but, uh, so that’s the lucky part for me. But it’s enough space that I can not only make it what I want it to be and I’ll be able to like rent out to other photographers to
Colie: Nice. So I mean, you’re adding another stream of income to
your business.
Katrina: stream. And yeah, so I would say far as boudoir photography, um, most of it I have done in studio.
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: when I was in this phase of, I went through a year of no studio, it was kind of hard and difficult because I, you know, you have to ask somebody, you have to rent another studio space and unlike just going in doing a headshot.
You need to be able to have the space for boudoir. So, I didn’t do as many sessions, last year during that time because I do prefer to do it in studio versus like going to a hotel or anything like that. I just prefer the vibe of a studio. Over a hotel.
Colie: Well, and I mean, there’s always the, because, you know, even though a lot of people will just rent hotels, I mean, a lot of them do have legalese when you’re renting them about coming in for commercial purposes and like all of those things, even Airbnbs. And so. I mean, for myself, if I was going to do a family session and that’s one thing, but then you’re bringing people in and you’re doing boudoir and it’s, I don’t know, it just feels messy.
I would, I would, if I was going to do it, I would love to have my own studio so that I didn’t have to worry about any of that other stuff.
Katrina: Yeah. And that’s kind of like where I kind of stand on it. I just don’t want to deal with all the other things about it. And plus, you know, for some of the ladies that I have photographed, um, a lot of them are. from the headspace of where I was, um, meaning like they’re going through things in their life and they’re trying to overcome, or they’re just becoming on the other side of overcoming and to just go into a hotel.
Like I just didn’t want that vibe and that feeling for them. I want it to feel more safe and secure. And just like, it’s just us. It’s not like you’re coming to just take off all your clothes, like at a hotel room. So it’s just a little bit more, um, personal. So, the studio space is best for me.
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: what I prefer.
Colie: First of all, let me ask you a question, cause I just thought about this. I talk a lot about getting repeat clients and we’ve already hinted at, you know, if you have a boudoir client and then they get married, if they love the experience with your boudoir, they might come to you for the wedding photography.
But do you have a lot of boudoir clients that are repeat boudoir clients? And if you do, how do you nurture that client experience in order to bring them back?
Katrina: I think it all begins with when you first talk to them the first time, right? Because during that consultation and when we’re talking and asking them their why, like what is their reasoning of why they’re coming to do that session today, sometimes six months or a year later, Their reasoning is different.
understanding why they’re here now. And then when you hit those other milestone things in their lives, a reason to bring them back when they, when they enjoy that experience, they felt the first time it’s easy for them to come back. And most of the clients always say, you know, like they would love to do this again.
So when you hear that, like just taking that mental note, so you always stay front of mind by keep nurturing them, keep sending them information about new services that you have going on. And then that’s what sparks that emotion in them. So they do come back as repeat people. So I think that it’s a definitely boudoir is a great opportunity to have repeat clients for sure.
Colie: What’s the referral game like in boudoir? Like, do you have a lot of new clients that are referrals from your existing clients?
Katrina: I do. Um, surprisingly enough, probably, I would probably say. Maybe like 30 percent you know is always someone that’s saying like such and such referred me or told me about you. or they shared something about their story, their journey with me and it was somebody that was, I’ve had a couple people that’s just friends with people on Facebook and they saw like their videos
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: and it brought them over to me.
So sometimes it’s not even a direct referral, but it’s because of Them seeing that my service is through somebody that they know. So referrals is definitely I’ve had girlfriends, want to come in and next thing, you know, I’m shooting like two of their, their best friends. I’ve also had girlfriend like shoots where they come in, you know, together, you know, and just have like a girls night.
So I’ve done a few of those as well. So.
Colie: Nice. Okay. I do want to switch shifts now that we’ve got a good understanding of what you do in your business and how the two brands may feed off of each other and where you consider your business to be in terms of referrals and all of that stuff. I do want to talk about grants. Because this is 1 of the most interesting things that I know about you Katrina is I always hear people say, well, if you’re not going after, there are so many opportunities for small business owners to get grants.
And I don’t actually know that many people who have gotten 1 of those small business grants. So let’s talk about your first grant experience. Which grant did you apply for first?
Whether or not it’s one of the ones that you got or not.
Katrina: Um, well, it’s 1 that I didn’t get.
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: I apply for you won’t like the name of the grant and all of that.
Colie: Yeah.
Katrina: I would probably say it was 1 through, citizens bank.
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: Citizens Bank, they do this $10,000, grant offer, and I think they do it annually too. Um, I see it quite a, quite a bit come around. So it was them, and it was one with Verizon as well.
So those are probably the first two that I applied for. I didn’t get either one of those, but I think with grants, the, the thing, what it is to keep. You know, keep applying like keep going for them and the other ones will start surfacing and other grants to start coming across your table.
Colie: Mm-hmm
Katrina: so, but it was, uh, the process was kind of like. One of them was more daunting than the other one. Some of them is like straight to the point. Like, hey, here’s a few questions, answer these questions, and we’re done. And the other ones are like, no, you got to dig deep.
Colie: Mm-hmm
Katrina: Like, they want to really know who you are, what you’re about, what your business is about, when did it get started.
how long you’ve been doing this, any referrals you have, and you have to, like, also, like, get your numbers together, you have to go and, like, your financials, so it could be a lot of different ways that you have to go about these applications, but I would say the one that I, one of the ones that I did get, didn’t get it until the third time, and it was Comcast Rise, So Comcast Rise, you know, I applied for it, like I said, three years in a row.
In the first two years, I kept getting my emails like, Uh, sorry, you know.
Colie: Better luck next time.
Katrina: Yeah, but just being persistent. And in everything it worked out in my favor because the last time when I got it, and I got the email again, I’m not gonna even lie. When I open up the email, I was like, I was assuming it was gonna say, deny it again, and it was big.
Congratulations. Like, you have this. And I was just like, wow. So it was an amazing feeling. and they actually not only gave me like financial, monetary grant, they gave technology grant too. So I was able to get like computers and laptops and And they gave you like, um, the services for a year and they gave you like a mentor.
So that grant was like amazing.
Colie: Yes. I do know one other person that’s gotten a Comcast Rise.
Katrina: It was outstanding. so I would definitely tell anybody to make sure you apply for Comcast Rise. I know that there are only like four or five states at a time that they do. So just looking out and making sure that is looking to see if your state is the state for that year.
Colie: So I want to, I want to cut you off for a minute because I feel like a lot of people, they hear about grants and it’s like, oh, it’s just free money. And in your case, what you said was it wasn’t just free money. It was free money. It was mentoring. It was technology. It was infrastructure. It was like all these things, but.
You said that you applied for this one three times, you got denied, denied, and then you got that nice congratulations email, but for yourself, what do you think contributed to them accepting you the third time when they didn’t accept you the first two times? Because I got some ideas. But I’m going to hear what you think it was first, and then I’m going to ask you some questions.
Katrina: I think it was me taking more time to really brand position myself to really like. talk about my story and what it was I was trying to do and my community involvement, my community impact. actually, have a, an initiative called I Am Worthy, just being able to talk more about that.
It’s a spinoff from my boudoir photography, where I really embrace women who’ve been through the things that I’ve been through. And I give them a space and a voice to actually tell their story. And sometimes it’s them telling it for the first time and we record it. Um, place them on YouTube and I think just being able to.
Um, allow them that moment, and I was really able to tune into that into the last applications that I
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: for. So I think having, um, some type of movement or something like that is what really sparked them because a lot of these grants are looking for your community impact. And so I think that kind of helped me.
Colie: Now, do you think, because I know that you, you were doing more of this project when you applied the third time instead of the first two times. But I would also say that you probably got better. About what you talked about. And like, every time you applied, was anybody giving you any kind of feedback on the story that you were telling to then come back and say, Hey, you know, you talked about this, but this is probably where you should expand a little more.
Like, did you get any guidance with the grant writing? Or were you doing it all on your own?
Katrina: I didn’t. It was all on my own so that would have been nice if they would have gave any type of feedback or if I would have even had somebody to like look it over or anything like that. But no, it was just me just getting better with what I was doing and the way I was explaining it.
Because sometimes we’re not as clear, I think, or, I’ve always talked about catering to my clients and everything, but I think really digging deep and having this one social impact positioning that that can of help me. And always why I say that is because. When I got to the next area, which was Goldman
Colie: Mm hmm.
Katrina: when I got into the Goldman Sachs program, and I got accepted into that, they not only give you a letter that says you are accepted, but then you have to go to a second round.
And going to that second round, I had to actually do like a live interview with like a panel. Like it was via zoom. but I think I was able to now read faces. They was able to ask me questions. And that came up, you know, they wanted to know more about what I was doing in that area there. They wanted to know about how I state that I have like monthly meetups where I teach other photographers and I have them come out and we network together.
So all of that, those things right there stood out.
Colie: Okay.
Katrina: wanted to know more about it. So I think that social impact and just being able to be accessible for the community really driving me to the next next step.
Colie: I mean, I really think that it’s important to highlight because sometimes we get caught up in the free money and it’s oh, okay. I’m starting a business. Please give me free money to help. And I would say that the biggest chunk of grants out there are not just like, oh, you need help getting your business off the ground.
Let me give you some money. It is all about your social and your
community impact and like. That’s what they’re giving you the money for, um, because they want every dollar that they give you to not only impact you, but to impact other people that you are around that you are helping that come to you for your services, all of that good stuff.
Katrina: Exactly. And that’s exactly it. They want to know what are you going to do or continue to do for the community? You know, with this, so that is exactly, um, what they’re looking for.
Colie: Now, how many total grants do you think that you’ve applied for? Because we know now you’ve gotten to, well, you’ve actually gotten three, but do you set time aside to research the grants, write the grants? I mean, is this like part of your new networking routine?
or do you just do it if you see something that catches your eye?
Katrina: I will say at certain times, it is a process that I am planning for. Like I do know what’s coming, um, and what it is that I want to apply for and just preparing for that. So that is the. The main way, but there are other times where grants just come across and it’s just like, oh, I may get email something because now I’m in the network for that.
And you just get an email, you open it up and it’s like, oh, it’s due in 4 days. And it’s like,
Colie: And it’s like, well, there goes my sleep.
Katrina: right. So. I would tell anybody the best thing is to start preparing yourself now, even if you’re not in a space to that you’re ready to apply for a grant, but you can start making sure that you’re collecting all your data, like the thing that the things that describe you as a business owner, making sure you know how to quickly get to your numbers from the last three years.
things like that and just if you’re doing anything social in the community, just create a folder and just start dropping things in there. So when you do come across those last minute things, you can quickly be able to, you know your story, you can quickly tell who you are, what it is that you do, how do you plan to help the community, um, what’s next for you, what do you see your future and, and be able to explain that in a matter of four days.
Well.
Colie: And I feel like, I feel like a lot of people do this, the same kind of thing in preparation for becoming a speaker, if you will, like, if you’re going to apply to speak at a conference, they don’t just want you to like, come on stage and teach that, you know. Like I’m a, I’m a former professor. I think everybody by now knows this.
They don’t want me to come on stage and teach you about a Z test. They don’t want me to tell you how to do the quadratic equation. Like, that’s not why you get invited to speak on stage. You typically get invited to speak on stage because of your story. Because of the impact that you’ve had on your community or your clients or yourself, like if you have a personal story of like growth that would motivate others in that way.
So I feel like. The preparation for applying for a grant is probably very similar to figuring out what your story is and how you could take that and make an impact from a speaking stage.
Katrina: Exactly. And, and just being, and when I say get prepared, like create that folder and put it on your desktop and start putting things in there to get you ready. Like I have two on my desktop right now of two that this in the top of my brain
Colie: Mm hmm.
Katrina: that I need to, um, look into soon. And I’ve already started like Accumulating like what I need to put for that one.
Colie: And. I mean, by the time this airs, I believe that the latest HoneyBook grant for 2025 is going, but the deadline is going to have passed. But just in case anybody listening isn’t aware, HoneyBook, which Katrina is a big fan of, as I’ve, as am I, um, in 2024, they started by giving out breakthrough grants and I’ve, were there 25 recipients?
I mean, there were a lot of, there were a lot of recipients and these people came from what I could see. In like their bios and what they released about the people who ended up receiving the grants. They came from all walks of life, all kinds of businesses. Like, it was, it was very diverse. And so they did reopen the breakthrough grants for 2025 and I don’t know if they’re planning on doing a couple more rounds in 2025.
I believe that they are. So, just in case, you know, Katrina already mentioned Comcast rise. She mentioned the Goldman Sachs program. And now I’m telling you about the honey. The honey, but breakthrough grant so that just in case you need to feel to get you started to see if it’s something that you might want to apply for do it.
And remember, I think the 1 thing that we should take away from Katrina story is 1st 3. she applied for. They said no. And in fact, Comcast rise said no twice and then she got it. And so I know. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you should stop trying. It doesn’t mean that you are not worthy. It doesn’t mean any of those things.
It means that you probably just need to work a little harder on the story that you’re trying to tell so that the people who are reading it can really feel and understand the impact that having the grant would have on you and your bigger community, if you will.
Katrina: Exactly. Because you are not the only one that’s applying for these grants. You know, the audience is very wide. So, you know, you, you have competition out there. So if your story is just, uh, I’m just started this business and I’m trying to open up a studio
Colie: What you gonna do with that studio?
Katrina: a little bit more than that. So, yes. and, and congrats to all the HoneyBook, winners and hopefully more to come. I know you have to be either, I think, new to HoneyBook.
Colie: can’t be a current honey book user which I mean, you know, I made my eye twitch a little bit when I read it I mean
Katrina: You know I was ready to apply.
Colie: sure you were. I mean, I thought that was a curious choice because, like, you’re excluding all of the people who are currently, like, in your community that probably rave about you to their friends.
I thought that was a peculiar choice. So, you know, maybe between now and when this episode airs, I’ll put my big girl britches on and go talk to somebody in HoneyBook and be like, why did you exclude the HoneyBook users? Oh,
Katrina: Yeah, and I, and I think they, they added a piece this time for existing users, for a little portion
Colie: I didn’t see that.
Katrina: it’s not like, like the big thing that they’re giving all the people and that’s an amazing for a new subscriber. I would definitely jump on it.
Colie: Yes. Yes. I’m going to have all of the details of that in the show notes, guys. Okay. So Katrina, we already talked about the fact that you were outreaching to other photographers. That was part of your impact story. So I do want to mention now that you, you know, you are in the education space that you have a workshop coming up in Detroit in June, where you are going to be doing some boudoir and some portraits.
So do you want to tell me about it? Well, actually I know about it. Do you want to tell the listening audience about it?
Katrina: yeah, I mean at this time, guess because I don’t have like all of the information that I can release today, but it will be a workshop in Detroit. It would be me and two other fabulous photographers collabing together to bring you this boudoir and portrait experience. it’s going to be amazing, something you don’t want to miss.
So stay tuned, follow me for details and you’ll be able to, um, get all the information soon. So see you in Detroit for
Colie: Yeah, I’m going to have not only a link to Katrina socials and her website, but also a direct link to the information about the workshop, because I do feel like. As a photographer, and maybe I’ll even say as a photographer of color, I don’t know that I’ve seen that many bourgeois workshops like just out in the world.
And I do feel like when, you know, when one of us has a workshop, we need to shout it from the rooftops because people are always like, I can’t find workshops. Yes, you can. You’re just not working hard enough. Just like you got to work and find those grants. You got to work and find those
workshops that you want to go to.
Katrina: Exactly. So I definitely have one, um, coming for you.
Colie: Okay. Katrina, thank you so much for joining me. I just, I hope that people have taken away from this conversation that even if you seemingly have two genres, That are not related that you can still figure out a way to get some repeat clients from both sides of your business to talk to each other. And also, again, I just, if you have ever been told that you could apply for a grant, and you didn’t know where to start.
I want Katrina story to be like, the impetus for you to just go out. Research, find one grant and apply because all that you have to do is start. And after you do it the first time, it gets a little easier to do it the second time and the third time. And maybe in the future, I will be hearing about you getting a fabulous grant because you were encouraged by Katrina to apply for one.
Katrina: Yes, I’m kind of rooting you on for that. So,
Colie: There we go.
Katrina: on.
Colie: All right, everybody, that is it for this episode. See you next time.
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