Have you looked into how the Enneagram has effected your business? From the way you run your business to the people you work with, Enneagram types play a role in how your professional relationships are built. In today’s episode, Katelyn Dekle and I have a casual conversation exploring Enneagram types in business owners!
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The Business-First Creatives Podcast is brought to you by CRM and Dubsado expert Colie James. Join Colie each week as she discuss how to build a business that brings you joy and a paycheck! From business advice with fellow entrepreneurs to sharing automation tips and tricks, Colie and her guests are sharing industry trends and resources, along with a little bit of sarcasm.
Guest Bio:
I’m a laid-back, laugh-happy, sarcasm-using, coffee-drinking, pet-loving, bibliophile. Fed up with building someone else’s dream in one toxic work environment after another, getting sh*t for pay and no benefits, I was tired of living check-to-check. After years of side-hustling, I finally took the leap into running my business full-time mid-pandemic in 2020. I’m the CEO, Squarespace Web Designer & Educator of Launch the Damn Thing!™️ cranking out personality-driven designs for truly wonderful people and I absolutely LOVE it. My passion is helping people find success in the online space, by sharing the tools and expertise I’ve gained since I started my side-hustle in 2015.
Here are the highlights…
[:34] Get to Know Katelyn
[4:03] Colie’s Enneagram Results
[5:17] Katelyn’s Enneagram Results
[11:49] Adjacent Personality Types
[14:21] Referring Services to Someone Else
[17:36] Raising Prices
[19:16] Offerings, Enneagram, & Strategies
[27:44] Setting Boundaries
[32:22] How the Enneagram has Helped Grow Business
[35:00] Outsourcing
[39:09] Biggest Fuck Up
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Instagram Live Replay on Enneagrams
Personality Path Enneagram Test
CONNECT WITH KATELYN
launchthedamnthing.com
YT: @launchthedamnthing
IG: @launchthedamnthing
Review the Transcript:
Colie: Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Business First Creatives podcast. Today I am chatting with my client and friend Katelyn Dekle, who is an amazing kick ass Squarespace website designer. But we’re actually not gonna talk about websites today, guys. This is the interview that I promised on Instagram months ago when I temporarily lost my mind over talking about Enneagrams.
Katelyn, welcome to the podcast.
Katelyn: Thank you. Honored to be here.
Colie: So I’m gonna state, because I know Katelyn will want this stated. Katelyn is not an Enneagram expert guys. She is just someone who loves talking about them. When I did the Instagram Live, and if you haven’t seen this live, I’m gonna put a link in the show notes. You don’t necessarily have to watch it in order to follow today’s episode, but on Instagram at the end of last year, I was talking about Enneagrams and how I was obsessed with finding out the Enneagram of all my current clients because I felt like it was giving me such.
into how they needed me to talk them through the process, what the process was like working with them, and then how they used or treated their support period after. And I put out there, I was like, Hey, if anybody knows any, any agram experts, please, you know, reach out. And Katelyn was like, oh, I’m not an expert, but I love talking about it.
And I was like, oh, Katelyn, on my podcast. Yes. We’ll, just, I don’t need an expert. I just need you, Katelyn.
Katelyn: Yay.
Colie: I think I also wanna tell you guys before we jump in, uh, I have notes up on my computer because , I honestly couldn’t tell you all of the types. I know there are nine, which guys, I get a gold star for that.
There are nine types of Enneagrams and so I have pulled up my report so that I can refer to it if Katelyn says something that I have no idea what she’s talking about. So Cait. . I know you’re laughing at me. It’s fine. Everything’s fine. Why don’t you start by telling everyone the first time that you took the Enneagram test,
Katelyn: Ooh, good question. I think it was like 2018 ish, and I don’t even remember where I heard it from, but I took the ready test, R H E t I, I think from the institute. Um, and it was like a hundred million questions.
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: I got a massive report and I actually just took a different test this morning to see if I would get the same results.
Colie: okay. Don’t say that. We’re gonna save that, cuz that’s interesting because Katelyn, the next question that I was actually about to ask you is if you took the test in 2018, like do you think that your Enneagram changes, like as your life changes, as your perspective changes, do you think that your Enneagram type can change?
Katelyn: Yes. I don’t think I’ve evolved as much as I thought I did.
Colie: Which is okay.
Katelyn: Yeah, I do. I do think it changes. I think I’m just leaning more in different directions now than I used to
Colie: And I feel like I understand that because first of all, we’re gonna have to talk about wings because I don’t, I, I still don’t quite know what that means. I mean, I, I, I have an idea based on the scale, but, when I first took the test, it was required in one of the group programs that I was in. So, you know, she had a list of all of these.
I know people don’t like to refer to it as a personality test, but there were like several. That she wanted everyone to take because she said, if you figure out what type you are, it’s gonna help you in figuring out how to work through this material and how to like, you know, create and run your business.
And I was like, whatever. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t believe that, but it’s okay. I’m gonna spend like a hundred something dollars to take these multiple tests and in the end I’m gonna tell you guys my Enneagram results first, and then I’m gonna let Katelyn kick off with hers. Cuz Katelyn knows way more about hers than I know. So guys, I’m looking at my report again because I needed a cheat sheet. So my top three, when you complete an Enneagram test, it is gonna tell you what your top three types are, but in order to get like all of the information, you have to pay for the full report. So I will just put that out there in case any of you in the audience have not taken the test and you’re like, Ooh, I’m gonna go.
So my top Enneagram type is type eight, which is, which is the challenger. And I know no one is surprised by listening to me being referred to as a challenger. My second type is the achiever, which I honestly feel comes out way more than the challenger. I feel like I’m always an achiever, but like the challenger only comes out in certain situations.
And then my third. My third top type, let’s go. There, is type one, which is the reformer. And so again, guys, type eight, challenger type three achiever and type one reformer. And now I’m gonna kick it over to Katelyn, because hers are completely different than mine. I think that’s why we like each other.
So Katelyn, why don’t you tell us what your top three types were when you took the test in 20? and then I want you to tell me if any of them were different when you took the test this morning.
Katelyn: Okay, . So my top, like by far, ranked the highest in was the loyalist type six, also known as the Devil’s Advocate. That fits me like a glove still . My second, oh and fun fact, at the bottom where it lists like people with this personality type are George Costanza, from Seinfeld. No
Colie: Woo.
Katelyn: no. And then the second type I tested highest as four was type nine, the mediator, and the third was type three, the motivator for the achiever.
So we do have some
Colie: We do have some crossover, but also type nine, Katelyn is my lowest, just so that you know, I am not a peacemaker. I am not a mediator. That was my lowest type. And so it was really funny because how this conversation started guys, was I reached out to all of the v i p day clients that I had done recently, and Katelyn was one of them at that time.
And I was like, guys, if you’ve ever taken your Enneagram, can you just, can you just DM me what your Enneagram type was? And when Katelyn sent me hers, I was like, yeah, that’s exactly what I was thinking going with this. So, Katelyn, when you took it this morning, were those still your top three?
Katelyn: Yes, but, well, not the top three, the top two. I think one of them was the eight this morning,
Colie: Okay.
Katelyn: which I thought seemed weird.
Colie: Um, it does seem weird for you to be a challenger. What do you think’s changed since 2018 to now that you think may have swayed your answers on the test to lead towards being a little bit more defiant? Cuz that’s not something that I pick up in your personality at all.
Katelyn: No, it’s really not. I’m much more of a go with the flow type of person. But since 2018, I took my business full-time in 2020, and I think since then I’ve had to become more of a challenger, even though it’s not a natural state for
Colie: Ah. I think we could talk for an hour on that, Katelyn, but no, I mean I think it’s really interesting that your top two were the same. And just, just for me, cuz I’m curious when you say that your top is a six and that it was, you know, far away from your others, like what was your point? Spread?
Katelyn: on the original one, it
Colie: Or on the one today?
Katelyn: the original ones had 26 for 6, 23 for nine, and 18 for three.
Colie: Okay
Katelyn: it’s not that far apart.
Colie: Mi. See mine were mine. Were only two points apart each one. So even though I have like tried to push back on people and I’m like, no, I really do think I’m a type eight and a type three, like almost equally, they’re like, no, you can only be one. And I’m like, whatever. I don’t think you get the point of this test, but okay, I’ll go with that.
But yeah, I was only two points between them and I really do think that it’s just different situations where I’m, my type eight is definitely the dominant. And in other situations, I mean type three I think is what I am just on an everyday basis. I think the Challenger comes out when I am in a room where I think that I have the authority and that I know that when I’m being presented with something, if someone tries to tell me that I’m wrong and I know that I’m right, I’m like, no.
That’s not a thing guys. I, I know that I’m right, a hundred percent. And here, lemme show you why So let me ask you a question. Beyond taking the test, have you ever been curious about like, the people that hire you or like the people in your family, like, have you ever had any curiosity towards other people’s Enneagram types?
Katelyn: when I first took it like I wanted to, I wanted everybody to take it, but I’m a meticulously detailed person and I don’t know that everybody just wants to sit down and take a $12 test that has like 150 questions in it, so like no one took it. . And so I was just sitting there thinking like, okay, my mom is probably this, my sister is probably that.
My dad is probably that. My husband is probably that . And I was just guessing. Um, but I never thought about it with my clients until like a month or so ago in a different program I’m in. And she was doing a different personality thing, and then I started thinking about it, why I never put the two together for all of those years.
I do not know
Colie: Well, I don’t know why you didn’t put it together when I invited you on this podcast, and I did that whole live.
Katelyn: No. Yeah, I did.
Colie: Because what I was thinking of when I realized what a few of my clients were, I was like, wow, an eight has never hired me. That was what I actually came to the realization of like challengers, like.
Do we think differently when we hire people? And then I was like, not only thinking about people who choose to work with me as like their dodo specialist, I was thinking about it in terms of the people that I choose to hire. And then I was like, oh, that’s actually a much deeper conversation, like internally because. I think that a lot of us go shopping for business coaches. Katelyn, I know that you’ve been in a lot of programs and you are someone who puts your money where your mouth is. Like if you wanna learn something, you don’t shy away from making like investments in yourself and your business. But when I had that realization that I started thinking about my own clients, I then started thinking about the people that I’ve paid.
And I was like, I know everyone that I’ve hired at least has to have type three in their. Three types, like without a doubt. And then I started thinking of individual people and I was. I think several of them are challengers as well. And so it just got me in this mindset of maybe I should be considering the Enneagram types in terms of who I would work with best and who would help me get the best results.
And then flip that around for myself because I know I’m not the, I’m not the setup specialist for everyone. I’m not the business coach for everyone. And so if I could just think about the people. who tend to have the best results for me or the people that I even like working with the most, like what would that do to like the selling process and the buying process for myself?
Katelyn: Yeah. And on the flip side of that, how might you need to adjust the process to work with adjacent personality types?
Colie: Mm-hmm. Let’s talk about adjacent personality types. So if you’re a six, you’re a loyalist, who are your adjacent personality types?
Katelyn: it told me that I was a nine wing, which makes sense. That’s like my peacemaker, mediator. side. So that’s what I revert to. I switched to a nine for growth and a three under stress
Colie: So you, you switched to being an achiever under stress. That’s interesting. How do you think that plays out as a business owner?
Katelyn: Probably negatively because that’s when my perfectionist tendencies come out when I’m a. and I stop paying attention to the devil’s advocate thing, or the devil’s advocate thing starts to cause issues with me choosing or making decisions because I can see both sides evenly . So yeah, it can be prohibitive if I allow it to.
It’s something I need to pay attention to for sure.
Colie: And I mean, it, it’s funny that you mentioned the perfectionist because I was on a recent podcast talking to someone else about decision, fatigue and people not being able to make decisions and being stuck inside of the perfection part and like not moving forward when you literally just need to make a. and go with it. If it doesn’t work out, you know, you can figure out a way to move forward. You can tweak it, you can come up with a new idea. But if you stay stuck in like, it must be perfect before I put it out into the world, you will never actually launch an offer. You will never actually launch a product.
Is that how you feel or does it play differently?
Katelyn: I am almost holy in that space. It’s like it’s, it’s coming from a nurturing side. . I’ve learned in this other program where I’m doing their personality thing, I’m an analyst slash nurturer. Those are the two types that I fall into. So the nurturer side of me is like, I want this to be the best damn thing they could ever take in their, like they don’t ever wanna pay anyone else.
And like, so that’s where the perfectionism is coming from. It’s not actually from me wanting to be perfect, it’s more me wanting to be correct. and fully fleshed out so that I can help them as much as possible. And that’s where I get stuck because that’s the detail-oriented nature of me coming out. So that’s like my analyst, my loyalist, like all of the things kind of coming into one space.
So it can be hurtful
Colie: And I’m gonna say I’ve actually seen that play out
Katelyn: Yep.
Colie: you referred one of your clients to me and Katelyn, you do Squarespace websites. And by the way, Brittany’s website is awesome. I will say that. But I do know that you tried to help her with her systems and her Dubsado, and you got to a point to where you were like, Nope.
Katelyn: Yep.
Colie: this is not where I can help you anymore. I need to send you to someone else. But like I do love that about you because I feel like you and i’s, personalities are very similar in that way. Like when someone comes to me for systems help, I cannot stick with just the systems. Like I wanna know everything about the way that you run your business because there are things that are related to your systems.
And even though I don’t sell myself as a business coach, when someone hires me to do Dubsado setup, you know, from experience that I just can’t help myself. I mean, I’m asking you all the things because everything that I can do to help your business better, even beyond what you paid me for is something that I feel compelled to do.
And I know that you feel the same way. So it’s interesting that that, yeah, it’s interesting that that comes out. you know, personality test, because I’ve never really thought about, I mean, I just thought that was me. Like I didn’t really think that it was like a personality trait that someone could, you know, ask me a few questions and basically pluck that out and put it into a report where I could think about the ways that that affects my business.
Katelyn: Yeah, I didn’t either. I had a client, actually it started to become a pattern when they were giving me reviews. They were like, it’s not just a website. It’s a website and strategy, and it’s a website in coaching and it’s a website and whatever. And I was like, well, I have to know those things to know how your business works, so I can design a website that will do a thing for you.
It’s like, to me, it’s just logical and. , I’m wanting to help , so that’s just how it works. But yeah, it wasn’t until I started hearing that over and over again, I was like, oh, okay. I guess I, I’m kind of doing all of those things.
Colie: Yes, and I worked, I worked with a customer insight specialist. She was actually on the podcast a few episodes ago, and when she did interviews with my clients, she was like, you know, Colie, you should probably really talk about more about your business coaching. And I looked at her and I’m like, but I, I don’t really do business coaching.
She goes, oh, but you do. She’s like, seven out of your nine interviews I’ll mentioned it, , and I was, I mean, but it’s not something that I sell. She goes, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t highlight it as part of the service. And I was like, okay, I’m with you Melissa. I’m picking this up. And so, you know, I started to tweak like the testimonials that went on my website and the ways that I was talking about what I was doing on Instagram.
And so it really does like put my services out there more holistically. And I think that you do the exact same, but like, let’s talk about what you do and how it affects this because know, That you give people more than a damn website, which by the way, guys, Katelyn’s company’s name is Launch the damn thing.
And so we both curse like sailors. I apologize in advance. So knowing that you offer all of this value and that your view towards building them a website that really converts is a really holistic thing, how has that adjusted the pricing for your services over the years? Because I assume they’re correl.
Katelyn: Yes. It wasn’t until I started taking book down Designer and jumped in where the students were like, oh my God, Kate, you really gotta change those prices, . And I was like, oh my God, I’m allowed to do that. Right. Okay. So it’s been like two years since I’ve changed anything. So since then, taking a different approach, they are changing hopefully twice a year, , so they’re about to change again.
And I’m reevaluating as I do that I’m also productizing what I’m doing a little bit more. So I’m trying to box up more of it and do less like from scratch stuff. . So lessening the admin. . So yeah, it’s, it’s changing quite a bit.
Colie: Mm.
Katelyn: But also because those clients have continually said like, coaching and systems and, and the last one that submitted a review specifically mentioned all the third party platforms, Katelyn, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, . So it’s becoming a thing. So I am just packing that in and making the price go up as a.
Colie: And so do you think, okay, cuz let’s talk about your offer Suite. I I, sorry guys, this is gonna go off on a tangent because I love Katelyn and just everything. So let’s talk about your offer suite because you do full builds in Squarespace and then you also have your v I P days. So, Tell me what’s included in a V I P day versus a full build, and then how do those two things relate to what we are talking about?
Which is you offering way more value than just the website as the final deliverable?
Katelyn: So the v i P day is usually just a shit list. They come to me with a list of things that they don’t wanna do themselves, and we have an agreed to set list. So I tackle that in a day. They get a week of support after that. it’s pretty simple one and done. It’s usually like, changing branding. Like we, I’ve just updated now I need to put on my website, but I don’t know where all the color settings are and like we, random stuff, adding a new page.
Websites tend to be like we’re diving in deep, deep, deep
Colie: Mm.
Katelyn: It’s a two week process, so it’s fast once the project is booked, like we’re done in like 10 business days. So, Yeah, I don’t like long drawn out projects.
Colie: me either. And you know that
Katelyn: yeah. . Yeah, I’m the same way. And I never wanted to be that person that had like a six month website project That just seems like I would definitely get bored.
Yeah. So, they’re fast and there’s a lot of homework. There’s workbooks and everything. But the point for me is to get so deep into their. Then I can plan for addressing problems before they come up, which is my Enneagram six coming out. And also diving really deep into strategies so they can try to design it as if I were them.
Knowing what they know, which is really hard to do if you don’t ask a million questions, which is again, my Enneagram six coming out
Colie: Yeah. So we’ve talked a lot about strategy and like, this is currently like a hot button topic.
Katelyn: Mm-hmm.
Colie: Do you ever think that you will have. a product or service or offer that just addresses the strategy, or do you think that that can only be done in like a one-on-one offer with the bigger picture in mind?
Because I did strategy and I’ve only done it one time, and Katelyn, I think I actually, I think I actually did that client the same month. that I did you or right after? I’ve only had one client that took me up on only doing a v i p day of strategy and not implementation, and me, myself, at the end of the day, I was very sad that I didn’t get to see it implemented.
Like, and I’ve never, I’ve, I’ve tried to follow up a few times and didn’t hear back, and so, I mean, I don’t know how it went with just a strategy and so that’s what. leaves me with not doing like an offer that is only strategy because I really do wanna see the whole thing played out. Like not only do I wanna tell you what to do, I wanna make sure that it get done, it gets done right.
Katelyn: Right
Colie: I’m sure there’s an Ina Graham little tip in there somewhere, but I mean, that’s how I feel. And so, There are lots of other people though right now that are thinking about doing the strategy as its own separate offer because there aren’t a lot of people that really have those kinds of analytical, strategic minds that you and I have.
Katelyn: Yeah. And I will say like you could certainly have your entire business built around this, going into the deep data, looking at analytics, like making your charts for customers and like, I mean like going full. I’m not that person. I love the data, but I don’t wanna do that level of it. What I’m diving into more often is like, , do you like your logo?
Yes. Or. Usually the answer is like, it’s fine, . So the follow up question is like, well, what don’t you like about it? Do you feel like it’s working for you? And usually the answer is, what do you mean
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: And so then we dive into loose strategy around how can we make it work for your business in a different way?
And that’s the basis of where I start. So I don’t deep dive into the a. From a standpoint of do I get sad that I , like if I wasn’t, I don’t know. Cuz I, I’m always involved in that piece of it. The parts I think that I could maybe answer toward is like, if they come to me with a terrible logo, I know it’s not doing something for them and they don’t wanna change.
Yeah, that makes me sad because I know that everything that I produce with that could be a lot better. If we adjusted the strategy, which also requires making some refinements to the logo and the branding as a whole. So yeah, I think in that respect, , it would make me sad if I couldn’t like, bring it into fruition all the way.
Um, but I do see a point in the future where I, in fact, I have a course idea in my head for strategy around a website.
Colie: Okay.
Katelyn: it would have to have some sort of community. I think though, because that’s such a like subjective thing, and I know there will be questions and my detail-oriented nature is like, okay, well I also need to be the person to answer those questions
Colie: Yeah.
Katelyn: So I’m not sure when, but it’s coming. And I don’t know what that will look like for seeing the full like come into fruition thing. I don’t know if that’ll be. I wanna see the students end results. I’m sure I will. But how many of them would I get to see? I don’t know. And that might make me sad, , if I don’t get to see a lot.
Colie: I mean, I get it. Like it’s just, it’s hard, like cuz I wanna see the end result. I also, I wanna make sure that everybody is taking, you know, what I’m giving them and that they’re actually like using it to improve their business because it hasn’t happened often. But I know at least one person that I’ve set up didn’t actually make the switch from Honey Book into Dubsado.
And it was, I mean, That person had a lot going on just in case she’s listening to this podcast episode. There was a lot going on in like life and business at that point. And so, but, and I didn’t realize it until recently and that was over a year ago. So one thing that that made me do, like the detail oriented nature of myself was I was like, I feel like now I need to have additional touchpoints after the support period is over.
Just so that I can check in and make sure that, you know, everything is fully implemented. Because the support period is, you know, the one that I give all of my clients is to make sure that you actually jump in there and that you get it. but like, I’ve never really thought to check in like six months later other than, you know, Hey, if you’re thinking of doing this, I have this half day, you know, refresh.
I mean, I, I can sell it , but like, just to check in to make sure that everything’s going in. I think that I might need something like 90 days out, six months at the latest.
Katelyn: Yeah. Cuz not everybody’s like me And like popping into your dms going, Hey, by way have I mentioned how awesome your wizardry is.
Colie: Katelyn, don’t ever stop sending me those messages. I get such joy from Katelyn’s messages, guys like, she’s like, oh my gosh, I sold this today and it was so easy and my client was so impressed by the process. And I’m like, I wish I could just c clone you. I wish I could just clone you. It would be awesome.
Katelyn: Yes, I, I wish I could clone you too.
Colie: Well, and I mean, you know, guys, ca, as I’ve said many times now, Katelyn designs Squarespace websites, and I mean, I love Katelyn, but in order to work with her, I’d probably have to switch to Squarespace. And we all know that’s not happening. So unfortunately you will never see a Launch Theam thing website in my future.
I tried to get her to think about, show it and she’s like me when people were asking me about like 17 hats in Honey book and I was like, no, I’m not the person for you. Sorry. Although Katelyn, did you see Now I’m offering Honey Book setup. So maybe there’s, maybe there’s Hope
Katelyn: I did. I’ve, I’ve played in show it too. I don’t not, I don’t hate it. I just, there’s so many aspects that I’m like, oh, but
Colie: I mean, but it is, it is like a thing of taking you out of your comfort zone. And I would never say that you should do a show at website just because I want you to do one. Do you know what I mean? Like you are definitely in your element when you’re designing in Squarespace, and so maybe that’s something that we should talk about, like how does the Enneagram play into your boundaries?
So the specific types that you have, how does that allow you to set good boundaries with your clients or not allow you to set good boundaries with your clients? Because I feel like as a challenger, I’m like, no, this is how it’s going. And like there’s no, there’s no wiggle room . So I am someone who is not challenged by setting boundaries for my clients.
But how about you, Katelyn?
Katelyn: Yeah, so I think that’s actually why today’s test, partly why today’s test told me that I’m more of an eight than I used to be for that very reason because, in that other program where I’m taking that test it told me that I’m an analyst and a nurturer and nurturers tend to be friends with all of their clients.
Guilty
Colie: I mean, I’m friends with all my clients too,
Katelyn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like genuinely I would like want to hang out with them in person, non-business related, so that makes it hard to draw a line where I don’t, I don’t give my phone number out to anybody. Mostly
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: But if I did, that would be a situation where I would have, and this is why I don’t, so they would text me after hours and I would feel inclined to reply.
Friendly behavior. , so I stopped doing that. So the eight has come into play where I now have to say, I need to tell people when my office hours are. I need to tell people when I will reply , because if I don’t tell them so that they’re expecting something very finite, I will come in at like six 30 in the morning when I’m drinking my coffee, or Saturday morning when I am actually maybe working, and no one needs to know that I am working
Colie: Yeah.
Katelyn: So
Colie: I would think, I would think that the Enneagram, so for someone like me who doesn’t have a problem with boundaries, like the Enneagram is just enforcing that. Enforcing is a bad word, but I can’t think of what kind of word I’m trying to use right now. But it’s, it’s letting me know that that is true to my personality, but for someone who has one of the types where it’s not, that can just be an indicator to you that you have to put more things in place in order to articulate your boundaries, to make sure that you’re constantly checking in on them and making sure that they’re set and that people are not pushing your boundaries, and that your boundaries are appropriately set.
I, I would think that some people could walk away with knowledge like that from something like an Enneagram.
Katelyn: Yes, definitely. And I know that since you helped me with my dev side process now that’s been like a year ago, so you probably don’t remember details of the forms, but I do have a workflow that sends a follow up with the video and like reiterating parts of the contract that specifically states stuff about communication and support.
For that very reason, I want to tell them in an automated way so I don’t have to say it out of my mouth. over and over and over. . So that helps for sure. And they respect that , thankfully.
Colie: no, and I mean, I think that’s related to Sometimes I get pushback from clients that are like, well, no, but we already have that in this email. And I’m like, yeah, th this is the thing that you wanna say over and over again. And like sometimes my clients are like, well, you know, do you have trouble with your clients doing this?
And I’m like, no, I don’t because I’m a pussy bitch, but this is what we’re gonna do for you
Katelyn: Yeah.
Colie: make sure that this is communicated in multiple spaces so that they can’t miss it. So that if someone comes at you and tries to get you to change, you know the processes that you have in place, that you refer them back to your contract, you refer them back to the video that Katelyn made, that expressed those boundaries over and over again.
No, this is great.
Katelyn: Yeah. Video and written on the same form. . So like, you literally can’t miss it. Don’t wanna watch. The video is written right underneath it.
Colie: And you could always add a checkbox that says, I have read the above and understand that these are the policies of launch the damn thing.
Katelyn: yes. I’ve even added initial areas on the contract in specific spots, , because I really want to like drive that point home. Not trying to be a bitch, but I really need you to focus on where I need to draw the line. Yeah, because it’s too easy for me to seep into that role. and become a friend, and like then there aren’t no boundaries, , because it’s just all about helping as much as I possibly can.
Overdelivering over creating and I will burn myself out.
Colie: Yeah. And guys, I will say Katelyn and I became good friends after we finished working together. I will say
Katelyn: Yeah. . Yeah.
Colie: we, we love each other. I do have her actual real phone number and she has mine. But going
Katelyn: Sh
Colie: I did not have that when she was my client. I just wanna
Katelyn: Yeah.
Colie: Uh, Katelyn, are there any other ways that the Enneagram has helped you?
in growing your business, making business decisions, anything like that?
Katelyn: Yeah, I think it’s been eye-opening to it. It’s weird to see you on paper in that way, like I understand. Obviously the results that I got were predetermined and they were not written for Katelyn Dekle. But to see it written out on a page like that where it can say like, in your highs, you are this person, when you’re reacting and you’re lows, you’re this person, , and I was.
Okay, well , I need to tattoo that on my forehead, So yeah, it helps you become a better person. I think just being more self-aware generally, like
Colie: Self-awareness is definitely the big thing because in some ways, when you read ’em, you’re like, oh, well, I’ve never really thought about the fact that I do that, but I do do that, and this affects how I react with my clients in this way. I mean, it is a rabbit hole. So for those of you who have not taken an Enneagram test, I am going to link the one that both Katelyn and I have.
In the show notes, but I do wanna make sure that you don’t take it in a rush. Number one, Katelyn said there’s a lot of questions like, just don’t go nilly willy, just click in buttons, guys, because then what you get is not gonna really reflect the choices that you’ve made on the questions. And then I would also encourage you not to do it when you know that you have something to do immediately after.
So like, don’t rush through the test. And then just glance at your results right before you have to go cook your family dinner or before you have to run out or you know, service a client. Like, don’t do that. Give yourself, you know, a little bit of space to review the answers. And I will say, you might be a little offended when you read some of ’em, so read them all.
And then put it aside and maybe in a week come back because you will be in a place where you can be more reflective about what the test is telling you instead of automatically saying, ah, this test is bullshit. Like, that’s not me. And then you have to come back a week later and be like, oh my God, that’s exactly me.
Oh my God.
Katelyn: and don’t overanalyze. The first few questions that I started taking, I remember feeling like, well, do I but what if in this situation, and then that’s my Enneagram
Colie: gut reaction.
Katelyn: Yeah. Go with your gut reaction, your initial reaction to all of. what I did this morning and it did seem to make a difference.
Colie: Okay, Katelyn, I can’t let you off my podcast without asking you the two questions that I ask everyone. So first, let’s start with what do you currently outsource in your business?
Katelyn: Hmm. That is a good question right now, um, it’s about to be SEO
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: so that’s not something that I’ve ever outsourced before, so I’m excited about. and kind of happy to like give that problem to somebody else.
Colie: Mm-hmm. So what is, what is pushing you to outsource the SEO O? Like what is it that you’re hoping that you’re gonna gain from it? Because it’s not that you haven’t been doing seo, I mean, you’re a website
Katelyn: Yeah. . Yeah.
Colie: So what has pushed you to the point to where you now want to outsource that to someone else?
Katelyn: Um, actually it’s because of Google Analytics four.
Colie: Okay.
Katelyn: I do not like it. I do not understand it.
Colie: I don’t either.
Katelyn: I do not get the same numbers as I used to, and it’s starkly different from Google search console analytics numbers. It’s different from my Squarespace analytics numbers, so I’m just, I’m just done. I’m like, somebody else fix this problem for me.
I do not have the time to deal with this shit
Colie: after you do it, I would love to hear about your experience because I created that new website, coley james.com specifically for the services. And when I first went into Google Analytics, it automatically gave me a GA four profile and like I went in there and I was like, . Okay. But this is not telling me the same things that Universal Analytics used to tell me.
So then I went and created, cuz did you know that until July you can still create a universal one? I went back and created a universal one so that I could get the answers that I wanted, but that’s not gonna help me going forward in July when Universal Analytics are all gone. I,
Katelyn: they’re officially switching people over too. Like I got Did you get the email from them? That was like, if you haven’t already, we’re going to switch you for you. And I was like, oh, well maybe if they figure out I screwed it up somehow , they’ll redo it. . But then I was like, no, I just need to reach out to somebody specifically
Colie: Yeah. Okay. So beyond seo, do you outsource anything else in your business?
Katelyn: Um, bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping and I do not handle our taxes, so we outsource that to our C P A and I just recently am almost done trademarking my business name, so I hired an attorney for that.
Colie: Good job,
Katelyn: Yep. So that’s it for right now. I’ve got a va like hopefully gonna be ready this year. And I’m really excited about that.
She’s family, but also kind of my best friend, so should be fine. We have very similar working minds.
Colie: Okay. I mean, that’s important though. Like one of the things, one of the things that I’m realizing, and it’s not really the outsourcing, well, I guess it is related to who I hire, like for my business, but I really recognized it when I look for coaches. is that it’s really important to find a coach that has the same mindset as me.
Like I don’t do well with me giving you something and me not hearing from you for a week like that. That is not my jam because anyone who knows me knows that it kills me to even wait until the next day to answer one of my client questions. I have forced myself boundaries, Katelyn boundaries, but other than that, I need someone who has a similar work ethic and a similar mindset in terms of timelines and those things.
So for anyone in the listening audience is thinking about hiring a va, you definitely need to translate that into who you’re hiring into your business as well. So like, you know, my virtual assistant last week, there was something that I thought that she had completed and it wasn’t actually complete. I sent her an email and she had finished everything within 45.
Like, that’s the kind of reaction that I need in my business. And I mean, it doesn’t mean that she has to do everything at the job of the hat, but like some things like, you know, I need to send you a note and then I just need it to be done. So, no, I’m gonna be happy when you, when you have that extra assistance in your business.
Katelyn: so am I.
Colie: Well, alright, this is the last question that I ask everyone who’s on my podcast. Hey, Katelyn, what’s the biggest fuck up in your business? What did you learn from it and how did you grow
Katelyn: the biggest fuck up. you know, you’re asking in Enneagram six, right? we don’t have problems. we fix problems. I am a really low risk like risk averse person, so I don’t really tend to have like giant fuckups.
Colie: Okay.
Katelyn: So I’d have to say, . The biggest one I can think of is just targeting the wrong people, not being myself.
That’s a pretty big one, but I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing.
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: so trying to be the professional person just wasn’t for me. That’s why I left my nine five.
Colie: Mm-hmm.
Katelyn: When I finally figured that out and went down my path, that felt more unique and comfortable for me. Everything else started just kind. Fitting into place like magic.
Um, so what is that Law of attraction?
Colie: I mean, and the fact that you can be
Katelyn: else
Colie: the fact that you can be a professional and have a business that’s called launch the damn thing. Uh, cuz you know, you know from me telling you every time I curse on my podcast or I write a blog post that has a curse word or on Instagram, my mother texts me and she’s like, did you really mean to do that on your business page?
Fuck yes, mother. I meant to do that on my business. If anyone is offended by my cursing, they are probably not gonna like working with me. And she was like, do you curse in front of the children? No, mother. When I am photographing people, I do not curse in front of the children. But do I say lots of curse words while I’m on a strategy call with a ddo set up client?
Absolutely. I mean, if I feel the need, because I have to cuss. So if you’re easily offended by cuss words, I’m not the person for you. And those just need to be everywhere. And so it’s good that you figured out what your. Of professionalism is, and that you can exist in a world where you can be you, Katelyn, and still attract, because I really do think you attract a certain kind of business owner to work with you.
Katelyn: I do. And I think that’s why it’s so easy for me to be friends with those people because they are just like me, in so many ways.
Colie: Yeah. All right. So guys, if you would like to hear more about Katelyn and just ask her any Instagram questions you can drop into her Instagram. Katelyn, tell the world where to find you on the internet.
Katelyn: Oh my God. At launch the damn thing on YouTube. On Instagram, that’s where I’m most active. Although I will say I’m most active on my blog, so leave like, comment , leave me a comment, join my email list. Hit reply cuz I actually do reply to everybody.
Colie: she does reply. I mean, she also has a really hideous auto reply guy, so you just have to forgive her when you get that. But then after that, she answers you and it’s fucking fantastic. But again, Katelyn, boundaries, like that’s your boundary. Oh my gosh, guys, I wish I had it pulled up so I could read to you all the things that are in her auto reply
But it does help her keep those.
Katelyn: it does.
Colie: Ugh. Well, my gosh, Katelyn, thank you for coming on the podcast. It was a blast talking to you and recording it at the same time. Everyone else, thanks for listening and see you next time.
Katelyn: Bye.
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