How the Enneagram Can Supercharge Your Self-Awareness with Ashton Whitmoyer-Ober

Colie: Before we dive into today’s episode with Enneagram Ashton, I want to give you a quick intro to the Enneagram, especially if you’ve heard the term floating around but aren’t exactly sure what it means. The Enneagram is a personality framework made up of nine core types, each reflecting a different way of seeing and responding to the world.

What makes it powerful is that it goes deeper than surface level traits. It’s really about motivation. The why behind what we do, not just the what. Now, we’re not going deep into all nine types in this episode, but we’ve listed them for you in the show notes so you can reference them as you listen. My chat with Ashton gives a great foundation for the kind of insight the Enneagram offers.

She does an amazing job showing you how this tool can impact not only your personal growth, but also how you show up in your work, your relationships, and everyday xqdecision making. So whether you’re brand new to the Enneagram or you’ve already typed every one of your clients, you’re in for a treat. Let’s get into it. Hello. Hello y’all and welcome back to Business First Creatives. Today I am having a conversation with Enneagram Ashton, and I think it’s so funny to call her that, but back in episode 60, you guys will remember that I interviewed my client, Kaitlin Dle, because both of us had recently gotten absolutely obsessed with Enneagrams, and I have not talked about it on the podcast again since.

So today I am talking to Ashton and we are just gonna talk about everything, Enneagram and whatever comes to mind. I’m so excited to have her on the show. Ashton welcome.

Ashton: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. I’m excited to be part of your community and just happy to be here.

Colie: Okay, so guys, Ashton actually has a background very similar to mine, and we did not talk about this before I hit record, so we’re gonna get into it now. Ashton, I want you to tell the listening audience what you used to do before Enneagrams and how you shifted into the work that you currently do.

Ashton: Oh, we did not talk about this prior. So I have my bachelor’s and master’s degree in psychology, and I’ve always kind of worked in the helping field, but specifically I was working in the field of domestic violence and sexual assault prevention. I. So I would work with our, state organization and the different centers and programs around the state in order to make sure that they had effective prevention programs that they were developing and helping them to evaluate those programs.

Colie: And you are also, well, I was gonna say a former professor like me, but you’re not actually because do you still

Ashton: I am still teaching. Yes. So I took a break this semester, which was very needed and helpful, but I do teach in the field of human services, at a local college or around pier. And really what human services is, is like services. Helping people provide services to humans. Like that’s the simplest way to put it.

And so I teach courses around, how to help other people, which is like so funny if you know Enneagram type, and victim advocacy courses, and I teach Intro to Human Services and just things like that.

Colie: It’s so funny y’all. So I have been following everything related to Ashton on Instagram since meeting her at the Creative Educators Conference. And one thing that I realized is that she actually lives. Where I went to high school, and so it’s funny that I saw that you were a professor because I mean, decades ago now, you and I have already talked about how old I am, but decades ago I got like one of my first starts as a college professor was at Hack.

Ashton: Oh my gosh.

Colie: Yes. And so, I mean, it kind of brought back some memories so we are gonna shift gears into talking about Enneagrams and I feel like I want you to give an introduction of what Enneagrams are and why you find them important to like self discovery. I.

Ashton: Yeah, so the Enneagram is an ancient typing system, and Cole and I talked before about how, a lot of people like to classify the Enneagram as a personality test, and I’m sure that I will give you my thoughts on tests. And there are tests, right? But what really is a typing system, meaning that it separates people into nine different types.

I don’t really like the word separate because like we are all as human beings connected in some sort of way, but I should say it classifies us into specific types where it, is related to our motivation. So our biggest fears and our biggest desires. I’m sure that a lot of you have heard about personality systems like Myers-Briggs or Strength Finders or DISC assessment, and I use those too.

Like I, I. Not, obviously I’m not trained in them like I am in the Enneagram, but those tools do a really great job at focusing in on behaviors of people. So maybe somebody is extroverted or introverted. They, don’t shy away from conflict, or they might avoid it like the plague.

Right? So those are behaviors. What the Enneagram is focused in on is your motivation behind those behaviors. So why you approach conflict head on? I. Why you avoid it, why you’re extroverted. So it’s really getting to the point of the why behind those behaviors. That’s why the Enneagram can be so impactful, because it can explain some of those behaviors that might be really confusing to us in ourselves and in other people.

And so once we understand why people are doing things the way that. They are, we can understand them better, we can approach them with more empathy and understanding, and just really truly get to know them as a whole instead of just what we’re seeing on the outside.

Colie: So when it comes to Enneagrams, it was, it was a little weird because again, I had never taken an Enneagram test and we are totally gonna talk and you know about the tests and why they’re useful and why

Ashton: Mm-hmm.

Colie: But it wasn’t until someone like, I don’t know, it was maybe like the 20th time that someone asked me, well, what’s your Enneagram?

I was like, well, damn it. Lemme go take this test real fast so I can tell you what it is. And I took it, and I will admit I was completely confused as to what to do with it because, I’ve already told Ashton I’m an eight, which you guys may remember from episode 60, but I’m an eight and I’m only an eight by two points.

I’m an, I’m a one and a three right under there. And so I didn’t understand how you take that information and like to not be silly, but just pick one, like. It told me that eight was my highest. And so, okay, is the test just a hundred percent accurate? And as I started to like read the results, I was like, oh, like I can see a lot of situations where I’m an eight, but I can also see a lot of situations where I change to a three and then maybe where I, you know, a one comes out a little bit more, but. Then I’m gonna admit my second mistake, and then I’m gonna start asking Ashton a few questions. But my second mistake was, of course, one that you’ve identified over and over again is, when someone asks you what your wing is, I was one of those dumb people that kept saying over and over again, oh, I’m an eight wing three.

Ashton: Ah.

Colie: Because the three was the second highest number. Again, like no one really told me how to interpret the results, what they would mean. But the reason that I, I got fascinated after I took the results was I was having a conversation with one of my clients, and all of a sudden I realized, wait. Is this related to why people hire me to help them with their systems?

And then I started sending out emails and I was like, Hey, people on my email list, can you just tell me what your Enneagram is? If you know it, just click one, tell me what it is. And then I started posting on Instagram and was like, Hey, tell me below what your Enneagram is. And then when some of my clients didn’t respond, I just flat out started emailing them or texting them directly.

I’m like, no, I’m, I need data. Like I’m really trying to figure this out. Can you just tell me what your Enneagram was? And several of them were like, well, I’ve never done it. Let me go take the test and get back to you. So once I explored this in this way, and again, we’re gonna talk about tests, but once people started getting me their information back, I started to see trends not in who was hiring me, but in how like the service went.

And so then I was even like more fascinated with, well, what if there was a way that I could help people? In a way that was better for them just by knowing what their Enneagram type was. And so that’s like the rabbit hole that I started to go down.

Ashton: Yeah, and that, I mean, that’s exactly why I’m obsessed with it is because like you’re, the question. Is, or the answer to the question is that yes, there is a way for that to, to be, and I just loved that you kind of pulled and, and evaluated your audience because, I. Like, it’s just, it’s so, I like love data, so it’s just so fascinating to me too to see who are the types that will, will work with us, and that’s really why it can be so impactful to people, to entrepreneurs, to relationships, to businesses, et cetera.

Colie: And it was really interesting ’cause I was listening to you on another episode to prepare for our conversation and you said something that I thought was absolutely fascinating because you said a lot of entrepreneurs. Identify either through self-identification or from a test as a three, and that that’s not always like the most accurate.

It, it tends to be, you know, what our desires are instead of like the mo I’m, I’m saying this backwards, but I. We tend to identify as threes just because we’re entrepreneurs. And when I heard you say that, I went back to like my list when people had started giving me, and I, I barely had any threes,

Ashton: Wow.

Colie: who were threes, oh, I knew they were threes even before I asked them what their type

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: I just thought that that was like super interesting based on what you said, and that a lot of people in my audience didn’t actually identify as three.

Ashton: Yeah, and it’s because a lot of the three, you know, the three is called the achiever. And so a lot of the three behaviors are characteristics that as entrepreneurs, like we have to have, we have to be driven, we have to be a self-starter, we have to be confident, like all of those things. But it comes back to those.

Motivations and what actually drives those behaviors.

Colie: So we’re gonna let you rant now, Ashton,

Ashton: Okay?

Colie: allowed to rant. You are allowed to cuss. You are allowed to do whatever you’d like because Ashton has some pretty opinionated views. On people taking tests. So

Ashton: Yes.

Colie: I just, that’s how I got started. And I will admit, before I found you, I didn’t actually know that there were people like you that would help people like dive deeper beyond the results that you get from a test.

Ashton: Yeah,

Colie: tell me what the test is good for and what it’s not good for.

Ashton: so it’s very normal to want to take a test, right? The like right off the bat, we’re humans and we want other people to tell us. Who we are. Like we don’t wanna have to do the deep inner work, but we’re, like I said, we’re humans. And so sometimes we answer questions in ways we want other people to perceive us versus who we actually are at the core.

Right. So, Tess are a great place to start. There are going to be some that are better than others. So I will give you some tests, uh, for you to put in the show notes. So specifically tests that I am okay with people taking are the Truity test and the Ready, which is actually R-H-E-T-I, the Risso Hudson Enneagram Typing instruments a mouthful.

But the reason I enjoy those tests is because it, it gives you a probability, kind of like you said. I’m willing to bet you took one of those. Is that right?

Colie: I took the ready and actually I believe that I took the other one that you mentioned before. I recorded my last episode, but I didn’t get the results of that one at least that I could find this morning while I was looking for my PDFs.

Ashton: So that one, the Truity gives you results in a pie chart format and then the ready gives you kind of like scores. And so the reason I recommend those two is because like I said, it gives you the probability and so you can take those results then and do the work. Like what I have an issue with is when tests will just say like, you are a seven or you are a two, and then people just run on their merry way.

And don’t do any work, and they’re just like, oh, I’m a seven. Or like, I, you know, I am. And they actually aren’t. The tests are really only about 60% accurate. And like I said, it’s because of, life experiences. So maybe in that moment you were answering questions based on how you were feeling or what you were experiencing in that moment.

Like I said before, answering based on how we want to be perceived, which is very normal. Like that’s a normal thing to do. Like, oh, I’m a kind person. Sure. I’ll answer this question. That’s really trying to align with being an Enneagram too. Also in speaking of that, in general, women will score high for two.

Just because we’re taught, like society kind of teaches us that we have to be kind, compassionate, and like. Giving somebody the shirt off our back, et cetera. So there’s just so many different things that come into play, like what’s our trauma response? How are we when we’re stressed? Like, so many things that come into play when it comes to the test that makes it difficult.

What happens then is say you take the test and you have that you score high for an eight to three and a one, then I would take that information. And help you decipher the differences between the three, or a lot of people do that on their own and read books or dive deeper into that. But I’m not surprised at all that you scored high for all three of those because, they have a lot of shared behavior characteristics.

It just comes down to the motivations that are different. But if somebody scores high for an eight, they typically score high for a three and a one as well.

Colie: Which I mean, you don’t understand that when you get the results. Like it’s not describing to you that, hey, these two have a lot of characteristics and so this is why we would expect that you score high on these three.

Ashton: Right.

Colie: I honestly feel a little bad for people who just take the test and they get the result and they don’t actually like. Pay for additional information or whatever it is.

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: one of the things that I didn’t really like read in depth until much later was the different character, like the rest of how it was describing me,

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: now that I’ve had like a pretty bad year last year, eight. Going to a five actually makes so much sense for me now because when I do get very stressed out, I am extremely avoidant, which I now talk to my therapist about on like a weekly basis. But it makes so much more sense now that I am reading this because it helps me see that, you know. This behavior didn’t just pop up all of a sudden, because I have spent the better part of last year thinking that some of the ways that I’m changing are like, oh no, it’s this situation. And it’s like, well, no, has pretty much always been here based on

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: motivations and my desires.

And so now I’m even more motivated to kind look into those things to help me. I mean, I don’t wanna say be a better person. That kind of sounds like fufu. But I do think that it helps me to navigate the world perhaps in a different way now that I am reading about my types and my strengths and what happens in stress and when I need security and like all of these kinds of things.

Ashton: Well, that’s why I like to explain the Enneagram sometimes as like a roadmap, you know? Or as a GPS, people don’t use GPS anymore, but you know what I mean? Like it’s your Google Maps, your Apple maps, because it can tell you that when you’re going the wrong way, you know how they yell at you if you. Have the, the noise on, which I do not, but some people might.

You know, it tells you that you’re going a wrong way, and then it says rerouting, right? And so having the knowledge of the Enneagram is helping you to reroute. If you’re going down a path that you know is going to, kind of trigger some of that stress response, then you know what you need to do in order to get back on the right path.

Colie: So talk to me a little bit about healthy levels and unhealthy levels, because this is yet another layer of the Enneagram, and I think that if people don’t kind of dive into it deep enough, they miss these parts. You know where it’s helping you. Get back on the path or recognize when you are perhaps being unhealthy and getting back to a healthy level.

Ashton: Yeah, so I actually hate the words like, I think it’s so cheesy, like healthy, a healthy version of you or unhealthy, but.

Colie: words do you prefer?

Ashton: I mean, that’s what I use because that’s what, that’s what it is. But I like, I think that it’s, it’s cheesy and people stare at me, you know, like I have a third eyeball sometimes when I’m like, this is the healthy version of the type.

But, but what that means is like, you are aware, like healthy. Kind of is a direct connection to being self-aware. You’re aware of your tendencies and so therefore you have behaviors that are going to kind of depict the healthiest version of you or the best version of you. When you are unhealthy, you are kind of living in this, state of being unaware where you’re just, you know, having these reactions and you don’t know really.

You know how to get back into a healthy version of you. So like for example, I’m gonna use you as an example. Sorry. The Healthy eight is, first of all, going to take on characteristics of the two. And so they’re going to be aware that sometimes their desire for control and power might get in the way, right?

So that’s part of it. And then from there, the behaviors are going to reflect using that power for good. So being altruistic and helpful and. Really using their voice to help people who don’t have a voice. You know, being able to be direct and decisive and a great leader, so they’re using that power for good.

When eights are really, really unhealthy, they’re going to use that power. For bad, right? Like it’s kind of the opposite. And so they might be a bully or demeaning of other people. They might wanna take control and kind of steamroll over others’ thoughts, opinions, beliefs. They might, you know, just kind of be more of a dictator instead of being a healthy leader.

So really where a lot of people fall is the middle, which is the average, right? And so some of those common stereotypes that you might see on Instagram, on the internet that have to do with the Enneagram are really centered around that average level.

Colie: And so what are some of the average levels that you would see for like an eight versus the average levels that we would see for a two like you?

Ashton: Yeah, so average for eight is going to be kind of a mix of both. Like you still want to have, like, you know, the eight’s biggest fear is being seen as weak or powerless or controlled, right? So you still are going to have that fear. But you might, be decisive. Like you’re still going to be decisive and direct, but you might be sharp with your tone.

Right. You might, resist vulnerability because you want to be perceived as strong and a lot of times eights are going to, equate vulnerability with weakness. You’re still going to like, have great. Leadership qualities, but you know, are you using those leadership qualities to benefit yourself or benefit other people?

Whereas for a two, so the two’s biggest fear is being unloved or not wanted, not needed, not liked, whereas like eights don’t really care about that. And it’s kind of like, this is the point of the Enneagram, right? Like for, my sister’s an eight. And so for our relationship growing up, we were vastly different humans, right?

And so, you know, I. She would look at me and be like, why do you care so much? And I’m like, how do you not care? Like, you know, just the Enneagram brings that level of understanding that, you know, you just we’re, again, we’re humans and it’s natural for us to just think that, everybody thinks the way that we do.

And then we have this language and we’re like, oh, wait a second. Like, you don’t think that way. But for twos, twos are the helper. But, where they can get in trouble is like helping to receive something in return. And so there might be tendencies of that for the average too, but you know. Even though really healthy twos are also kind and caring, like average twos are also kind and caring.

It’s just, you know, they might have to have a heart check sometimes, which is how I describe it, in the why behind the helping or the why behind, like why they have that caring personality.

Colie: So for a two, for example, and I’m trying, you know, again, like I’m fascinated, but I don’t quite feel like I always get it. ’cause it’s funny you, we didn’t, we didn’t discuss what I was a professor of, uh, statistics and math.

Ashton: Oh

Colie: love the data

Ashton: yeah.

Colie: and you know,

Ashton: Which makes sense to me. Since you were collecting the data of your community.

Colie: But not so great at the interpretation.

So this is when I’m like leaning into what I see as definitely not a strength of

Ashton: Mm-hmm.

Colie: but like, so does that mean that like for a two, an unhealthy helper would be helping people to the detriment of themselves?

Ashton: Yes. Hundred percent.

Colie: I was

Ashton: Mm-hmm. To the level of burnout and then resentment, like, they’re like, oh, well I’m done doing these things for you because you’re not doing anything for me.

Colie: Yes.

Ashton: Mm-hmm.

Colie: so I feel like this is kind of a good opportunity to say, you know, people take the test, they find out what the probabilities are of their types, and then what does it look like to have someone else help you to really look at those results and find your type and your wing, and kind of help you figure out how that should be interpreted in how you are navigating your world. Your business, your friendships, like how is it that you work with people in order to help them with that discovery?

Ashton: Yeah, so there are just so many components to the Enneagram, like it’s a complex tool, and it’s not. A tool that is like gonna make you feel great all of the time. So sometimes it’s hard for us to admit that these things are like our reality, right? And so having someone alongside of you kind of going through that Enneagram journey with you can be really helpful because it’s a, an outside perspective and sometimes we need an outsider to be able to.

Get real and honest with us and to help us kind of, uh, pave that path, so to speak. But like I said, the Enneagram is complex, meaning that you don’t just have your one type. Your motivations are gonna stay with your one type, but you also have your wings. You have where you go when you’re stressed, where you go when you’re the healthiest version of you.

You know, and you know so many other components about that. And so that’s what the test doesn’t tell you. A lot of times too, people, I was working with this one person who came to me, really not for me to help her figure out her type. She came to me for like the next step. Okay, now I know my type and, and how do I become the best version of myself.

But what we realized in working together was that she actually thought that she was an eight. And in reality, she was a two who was just really stressed out because the two, when they’re stressed looks like an eight.

Colie: Okay.

Ashton: And so those kinds of things are not uncommon for me to discover in other people. And you know, there’s just so much that goes into it.

Colie: Okay, so I’m honestly laughing a little bit because, and if you’re watching YouTube, maybe you saw me laughing at her you said, you know, an outside perspective, the thing that came to mind the most is. My husband and our therapist,

Ashton: Yeah,

Colie: he, he really appreciates. It was really funny. I asked him how long he thought we would be in therapy.

He’s like, oh, I think we’re gonna be in therapy forever. He really enjoys having an outside perspective to kind of mediate

Ashton: I.

Colie: us because my husband and I are very similar, but we are also very different. This reminds me that I didn’t look it up before I got on the call with you, but when I got really fascinated, I made him go take the test so he could come back and tell me what his Enneagram was.

And unfortunately I do not remember what it was. But is that part of like how someone can use their Enneagram? I don’t wanna say for good, but like. Because, I mean, this is a business podcast, don’t get me wrong. I’m fascinated with everything to help me be a better business owner, to help the people that I am working with in a more sustainable way, but also personal relationships.

Like how is it that you may coach somebody, or how is it that someone may use their Enneagram to have healthier relationships with their partners, their children, their friendship?

Ashton: Well, when we know more, we understand more. You know, so when we are knowing what’s motivating them, we can adjust our behaviors to kind of fit in line with that. And that goes both ways, right? Like, I’m not saying like, oh, this is, you know how they are. And so you have to change who you are, but it gives you a level of understanding.

So. The easiest thing for me to, to talk about is, you know, we just moved, which is like 10 out of 10. Do not recommend doing with a four and a 2-year-old. Like, chaos doesn’t even begin to describe it. But I am a two and my, my husband is a six and he is very much a plan and prepare for the worst, and then whatever happens.

Like, you know, it’s gonna be good because I’ve planned it for the worst things, whereas I’m very much like a, oh, I don’t play and I just fly by the seat of my pants and hope everything works out and I know that it’ll work out. And so, you know, like these two, uh, situ or this situation, we just, you know, worked through that so differently based on our personality.

But I knew this about him and so I knew that I needed to. Kind of, you know, make sure that he felt prepared, make sure that he, you know, had what he needed, that we, and he knew that like I might’ve needed a little bit of extra support when it came to the planning, because I’m just like trying to take care of everybody else.

Colie: Yeah. So on average, how long do you typically work with people to explore their Enneagram?

Ashton: That’s so hard to answer because it’s so dependent on the person. Sometimes it’s, you know, one session and it’s so obvious to all parties involved and then other clients. Like it is a, it is a process and sometimes we have to work backwards and look at childhood and, you know, explore, coping mechanisms and trauma responses and, and stress responses.

You know, all of those things to kind of get to your main motivation because it is like uncovering levels. Um, or layers of an onion, right? You’re like peeling back those layers of, okay, well I did this, but why did I do this? And, you know, I responded in this way, or I reacted in this way, but why did I do that?

So sometimes it takes a process. A lot of times we figure out their type and then it’s like, okay, now what do I do with this information? And how do I become a better version of myself, how do I communicate better? How do I, you know, reduce my stress response, things like that.

Colie: Okay, so I did find my husband’s results,

Ashton: Oh,

Colie: this is why I was so confused. I know. You’re like, Ooh, tell me.

Ashton: tell me,

Colie: So the funny thing is when you ask me, which. Test I took and I was like, well, I took ready, but I also think I took Truity, which I didn’t. That’s the test that he

Ashton: oh.

Colie: that I’m looking at his results, which is why I couldn’t remember what mine was, but he’s a peacemaker.

He’s a nine,

Ashton: Yeah. That’s very opposite of an eight.

Colie: and I mean, he’s a nine by a lot

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: at, at least according to the, you know, probabilities, percentages that it gave.

Ashton: But I’ll say I see a lot of eight and nine partnerships because they balance each other out so well. Because you know, eights can be a little bit headstrong and nines are very much like, go with the flow. Whatever happens, happens that can view multiple perspectives and see different opinions.

I’m like, oh, I can see why they did it that way. And the eights are like, no, they shouldn’t have done it that way. Like.

Colie: You make me sound so headstrong, Ashton.

Ashton: I don’t think you’re denying it.

Colie: I’m not. I’m not at all. I mean now I do wanna like kind of take a small pivot to the wings because I admitted to you my mistake that I just thought that it was the second highest type. But what additional insights does Your wing give you, um, for yourself?

Ashton: So the wings are the numbers on either side of your main type. So like we said, as an eight, your wing would either be a seven or a nine. And so what that looks like is your motivations are still going to stay with your main type, but you might take on some behavior characteristics of your wing. So I’m willing to bet that you have a seven wing, is that right?

Okay.

Colie: So the funny thing is, I didn’t, I didn’t know you, Ashton, I didn’t have you. So in like true coldly fashion, do you know how I picked my wing? I asked chat, GPT, and I’m, I’m being funny and I’m not saying that. It told me I was a seven and that was the end of it. It just more told me the characteristics and it’s like, you know, reading over this, do you feel stronger one way or the other?

And I just thought that that was like an awesome perspective because like I was like, okay, no, I really do feel like I’m a seven. And I’m like, can you tell me more? And then they told me more and I was like, okay. No, I’m definitely a, I’m definitely a wing seven.

Ashton: Yeah. Um, and, and like I said, most eights I feel like that I work with are wing seven because the nine is such like a contrast to the eight, but it’s more of like a gentle strength, I would say. Whereas, eights with a seven wing are more of like an optimistic strength. So it, it really just gives you, it paints more of a picture of who you are and why you do things the way that you do and more of like your personality.

And it’s why you can look at two different eights and see that they’re not identical. There’s still like a lot of components about them that are different. They’re viewing the. A world kind of in a a similar way or have a similar foundation, but there’s still just different pieces of each individual person.

It’s why it drives me a little crazy when people say like, well, I don’t wanna be labeled, or I don’t wanna be put in the box. Or there aren’t just, you know, nine different types of people in the world. And I’m like, well of course there aren’t. But this plays a role into who you are and wouldn’t you want to use that to better understand yourself and others?

Colie: I mean, I think it was really interesting in the beginning of our conversation where you talked about it classifying you and not really putting you in like this box that’s very rigid, that you can’t get out of.

Ashton: Right.

Colie: kind of interpreted the wings as being like a spectrum, like yes. Eight is your main type.

We can identify and recognize a lot of the strengths and the weaknesses of an eight inside yourself, but the wings are what kind of guide you into the other parts of your yourself and your personality that don’t really fit into the eights, but that you demonstrate a lot inside of your personal and business life.

Ashton: Yes. Yeah, for sure. And the wings can fluctuate, so some people might think that they’re, you know, accessing more of one wing when they’re, you know, working and more of the other wing when they’re at home, et cetera.

Colie: That is fascinating. One of the things that I was trying to like explore, I guess when I first got the results of my test and I was like, okay, it said that just because an eight was my highest score doesn’t mean that I’m an eight. And I started thinking, well, what if I’m an eight when it’s like my business and what if I’m a three in everything else?

Because I feel like in school. Maybe like in my personal life, I do tend to lean more towards a three, but in my business I’m a hundred percent like an eight is my personality. Um, how is it possible, or is this a thing where your actual main type will fluctuate as well? Or is it just your wings that fluctuate?

Ashton: Just your wings. So your main type has been with you since you were born. Like it’s more of a nature versus nurture situation, so to speak. And so that’s why you should be able to look back on your life and see kind of how your type showed up. In those experiences versus like your life experiences dictating what your type is.

So your main type will stay the same, but I’m, again, I’m willing to bet. So if you were to, not to turn this into you right now, but if you were to tell me the things that you relate to about the three, which, do you have any off the top of your head?

Colie: Uh, I, well, I mean, I have my piece of paper. So one of the things that, a three wants to be seen as valuable and worthwhile, and I tend to feel that way when it comes to the end result that I’m giving my clients. Like I don’t necessarily think it’s that I wanna be viewed as valuable and worthwhile, but I want my advice and I want the end result that I gave you to be viewed as valuable and worthwhile.

Ashton: So why, you know, like, is that because you want to be seen that way or is that because you want to avoid being seen as weak? I.

Colie: It’s interesting. I’m not sure that it’s about me, which sounds not like an eight. I feel like it’s more about them. I want them to kind of feel like they got their money’s worth. I want them to take the thing that I told them that they needed and actually put it into practice because that means I was right.

So maybe that’s the,

Ashton: So the,

Colie: to be right.

Ashton: the eight’s biggest desire is to protect themselves and other people. So they care very deeply about their people and making sure that they have what they need. And that’s what that sounds like to me. So again, on the surface you would think like, oh, that’s a very three trait, but then when you like get down to the why, it’s oh.

This connects to the eight.

Colie: The other thing that I saw in the three for the test results was, that threes don’t like anything that looks like failure and I. like I’m always, repurposing or, changing a failure and making sure that it’s seen as what I did right versus the things that I did wrong. So

Ashton: Yeah.

Colie: is that like an eight treatment?

Ashton: Yeah. To fo to make that focus on, again, like I’m where you’re protecting yourself. And you know, a lot of eights will say too, that I’m like trying not to upset the eights on on here. But a lot of eights will say that they don’t care what people think, but a lot of them do. They just pretend that they don’t,

it’s not in the same way that twos and threes do. Right? So like, deep down they want to be perceived a certain way because they don’t wanna be seen as weak. Right? And, they put on this strong exterior so that they’re perceived as strong, but that strong exterior is often kind of protecting a highly vulnerable, interior that they don’t want to present to other people.

I.

Colie: I very much agree with that. I very much agree with that. Ashton, so to bring this all, and I mean, I usually don’t ask my guests this, but I feel like you are a very good. Person ask if you wanted to tell the listening audience anything about an Enneagram that you just feel like is the hill that you will die on the thing that you want everyone to know.

What would that be for you

Ashton: The hill that I would die on when it comes to the Enneagram is really to just have an open mind about it and to use it as a tool. Don’t use it as a bandaid for like, oh, this is just who I am. I’m taking this information. Kind of goes along with what I said about Tess earlier. Like, don’t, don’t just take that information and, and be done with it.

Use it as a tool to transform your life and your relationships and your business and your, clients and all of those things. Because when we understand ourselves and when we understand other people, we do better work.

Colie: Ashton, this has been an amazing conversation for first thing in the morning. I feel like I want everyone to come follow you because you do amazing content around the Enneagram,

Ashton: Thank you.

Colie: where is the best place for people to find out more information about you and your Enneagram services?

Ashton: Yes, please check out my Instagram, Enneagram Ashton, like Coley said at the beginning, and my website, enneagram ashton.com. I specialize working with teams and workplaces in order to transform their relationships, and I help train other people on how they can use the Enneagram with their clients as well.

Colie: Yes, which is what brought me to this rabbit hole to start. Ashton, I cannot thank you enough for joining me for this conversation. I mean, I feel like we only touched the surface,

Ashton: Literally,

Colie: I should just have you back and we

Ashton: I’m happy to.

Colie: something really specific next time.

Ashton: Yeah,

Colie: yeah, I, I have a problem, Ashton.

Once I invite somebody on, once I just keep on inviting

Ashton: I’m happy to.

Colie: All right everyone. I hope that you have felt a little inspired by today’s conversation. And guess what? If you don’t actually know your Enneagram type, you should go take the test a first step, and then you should explore it more. All right. That’s it for this episode. See you next time.