Business Bestie Chat Q3 – 2026 with Sabrina Gebhardt

Colie: Hey y’all. Welcome back to Business First Creatives and the Shoot It Straight podcast for Q3 of 2026 Biz Bestie Chat between myself, Colie James, and my bestie, Sabrina Gebhardt. This is gonna be a really interesting conversation because both of us have been talking about what an interesting position we are in this summer.

And so we’re gonna be really honest, we’re gonna be really vulnerable, and hopefully you guys can take it from us, who have both been in business forever at this point, double digits, that this is just the way that things go sometimes, and you just have to be steady in what you’re doing, be willing to pivot, but it’ll all work itself out.

Does that sound about right, Sabrina?

Sabrina: That sure does, my friend. It sure does. And I think when you say we’ve been in business forever, uh, collectively, probably over 30 years, right? I

Colie: Almost. I’ve been… Well, actually, you know what? I- I’m at 14

Sabrina: Okay, so I’m at 15, so 29 years of

Colie: just shy

Sabrina: Yeah, yeah. Uh, that’s a lot of experience, and you’re right, some, some years are better than others.

It’s highs, it’s lows, and as frustrating as it can get sometimes, the gift of experience and trusting that, like you said, staying steady and that things turn around and it’s never the end of the world is, is really, it’s really a great gift because people that are in the early phases of business, they don’t have that

Colie: They don’t have that wisdom.

Sabrina: Yeah, and they, you know, fully freak out. So I’m glad to not be in that position

Colie: Yeah. Well, let’s get into it. In case you are new to these Biz Bestie chats, what we do is take a moment to recap what our plans and goals were for the previous quarter, kind of give you guys an update on what actually happened, and then we move into where we’re going for the current quarter. So I’m gonna kick this off.

Sabrina, I know you said you were unprepared, which again, is really not like her. It’s… She does way more preparation for everything than I do. But I did reread our transcript from Q2, and I was

Sabrina: you’re ahead of the game.

Colie: I mean, you know. I was surprised to read that for myself, the very first thing that I told you guys was that I decided to scrap Email Like You Mean It as its own offer and fold it into Systems in Session.

And here I am for Q3, and I’ve already sold a couple spots for The Experience Edit in July. So the first update that I wanna give you guys, and if you’re a listener of my podcast, I apologize. This was actually Tuesday’s, solo episode of the same week that we recorded this. But I did decide to once again pivot this offer because I love this offer.

It has a place in my offer suite, and I finally think that I’ve done it. So instead of calling this what used to be a DIY course turned into a five-day live sprint, um, that was called Email Like You Mean It, that was really focused on getting you guys to write the client communications that guide your entire journey for your clients.

I have renamed it The Experience Edit, which I really do think suits what it does. But now it is a 10-day experience where in week one, we fully map your client journey, and in week two, we write all of the emails that guide it. And so what I’m giving you hasn’t changed. It’s just now I am properly emphasizing what we do in two parts, which is figure out what you wanna do with your clients at every step along the way, and then we write the email so that you are never scrambling in the moment to write them.

And so that is like my big announcement on what I did from Q2 to Q3

Sabrina: I love it. And perfect example of you can change your mind, you can change your direction, you can just follow your intuition, and that’s what, that’s what business is all about. And again, we’ve been in business long enough that we know that, right? And we can trust the process

Colie: Well, and I really didn’t intend to sell it publicly, but what I did was, I mean, and hey, ironically enough, the last time that I did a live teaching was at your house when we recorded the Q2 one. So I did a live training, um, last month, and it was called Replace Your Sales Calls, because I have been, like, getting all kinds of questions.

Mostly we’re going into summer. People don’t have time to dedicate a lot of time to discovery calls and sales calls. And so it’s just something that I was being asked over and over again. And so I did a free training, and I totally intended to pitch Systems in Session at the end. But the truth was, it just didn’t feel like the right offer based on what I taught in that live training.

And so I told that group, I’m like, “Hey, I actually wasn’t intending to sell The Experience Edit as its own offer anymore, but I think it would be perfect for you guys coming out of this training. So here’s the link. If you would like to join, I’m giving you until Monday. This is probably going to be the only opportunity that I sell it, you know, as a standalone.”

But a couple people joined, so now I’m like, “Was that the right move?” I don’t know. We’re gonna see.

Sabrina: I love that. Okay. Here’s what’s happened with me. Here’s the … Uh, I’m like, wh- which update do I wanna start with? Um, I think let’s start with the fun update. Summer camp happened, and I mean, summer camp happened, and if you guys listen back a couple of our Business Bestie chats to the beginning of the year, summer camp was just born, like the idea was birthed in January.

And I have already launched it, sold it, filled it, had it, and we’re on the other side, and it was as iconic an experience as I thought it was going to be. It didn’t quite pan out with the kinds of, uh, attendees I thought I would have. Summer camp was a really bougie retreat experience in coastal Maine in June, and I had intended it to be not just photographers.

I intended it to be the first time that I was going to host a retreat experience for not just photographers, because I’m constantly asked that. I host incredible retreats, and I’m constantly getting DMs of people that are like, “Would you ever do this for non-photographers?” And so this was my answer to that.

What ended up happening was all but one of the women there … Well, actually, all of the women there were either active photographers or form- former photographers. But a couple of the women had already pivoted out of photography and into other things. And so it was interesting. It was s- we had an absolutely incredible time.

Everything went off without a hitch. It was so great, and I have continued to get feedback and interest in the next summer camp, so I think there will be a next one. When I sold the seats to summer camp, most of the people were like, “I want to be there, but we already have something booked.” So I’ve learned that when it comes to launching something for summer, we gotta go early.

And I launched it in January, so January’s not early enough for summer camp apparently. It needs to be like a November or Dec- early December offer. Or

Colie: present to yourself, those of you that are

Sabrina: or maybe I can launch it later if I give people like a mark your calendars kind of a thing ahead of time. So we need to play with that. But summer camp, I wanna go back already.

It was so fun, and I’m so proud of how quickly it was birthed and came to fruition, and it was really, really awesome.

Colie: Well, you know, I’m super jealous. Guys, I thought I was gonna get to go. Like, literally when she chose the dates, I was like, “Awesome, that is after Colie’s dance recital.” And then do you know what her dance school did, guys? They moved the recital by a week.

Sabrina: How

Colie: I was like, “I can’t go.” Well, and the thing is, you know, I don’t miss my child’s things.

This is the one dance recital that she has for the year. I would probably never miss that if I could absolutely, you know, make it happen. But then you launched Summer Camp literally after James and I were on our cruise together, and we missed her talent show, and we missed a choir performance, and I mean, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do anything about that.

So then even the tiny thought in my head that was like, “Oh, I can just watch it…” Yeah, no, that wasn’t gonna happen, ’cause she was so disappointed that we had missed things while we were on our cruise. She’s like, “I don’t understand why you have to go this week.” And I’m like, “Well, honey, this is the week that Daddy and I got married, and so I’m sorry, that date doesn’t move.”

Sabrina: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So

Colie: Okay. So I mean, is there any other update that you wanna give us from Q2?

Sabrina: Um, from Q2, uh, do we wanna talk about the Root to Rise launch? Let’s talk about the Root to Rise changes. Let’s talk about that first, and then we’ll talk about the launch in real time. I finally– I kind of had gotten a stirring that my high ticket mastermind, my main program that I offer, Root to Rise, that there needed to be some changes.

And when you and I saw each other at Creative Educator Conference end of March, beginning of April, I was like, “I know something needs to change, but I’m not really sure what that looks like yet.” And I knew intuitively something needed to change, but I was also real scared to make any changes because I didn’t wanna break it.

The program has worked really well and for a really long time, and I didn’t want to affect the kinds of results that the women that go through the program were getting. So I was really, like, toying with what does it look like to make changes? Anyways, and that was a whole thing. But slowly, as I was talking to peers, I was talking to you, I was talking to Maddie, I was talking to Brianna, I was talking to trusted peers who know my business and also know me and also do their own things, right?

So they could offer outside perspective. And I started to slowly get some clarity on what that was, and the more I sat with it, the more I was like, “Damn, not only am I not gonna break this, this is gonna get better,” which I didn’t think was possible, and I am so thrilled with where the changes have landed.

And so one of the things that was kind of gonna be the tell is when I announced what the changes were to my alumni, I was really interested to see how those women reacted, because I have a very high return rate for alumni coming to the program again. And I knew that… I knew they’d be honest with me, but if they weren’t gonna be excited, it was gonna be a red flag that maybe I’d gotten something wrong, and I have gotten nothing but positive feedback from alumni about both alumni that have rejoined the program and also alumni who are like, “Oh my gosh, I wanna do it again.

This sounds incredible.” You know? So I was like, “Okay, we’re, we’re on the right track. This is gonna be amazing.” So I’ve implemented all of those changes. Some of them are larger than others, but it’s like taking the best of the program and kind of cutting the fluff and then adding in some really incredible things that are both gonna be better for my students in the long run and also gonna save me a lot of time, which is wild.

I’m so excited about it. So it is a win-win on both sides. Made all those changes, launched the program, and we’ll talk about how they went in a minute. But that, that felt like a really big win for me to get on the other side of that decision because it was really weighing on me, but I feel so super confident about where it’s going.

Colie: So it’s kind of weird because I have been making changes in Systems and Sessions since the beginning of the year. One of the things that I did was I implemented those mandatory pre-scheduled calls the first four weeks, and while I agree that they were needed and my clients absolutely love them, in the months since I implemented it, I have seen a slight change that I’m trying to f- trying to figure out how to deal with.

I feel like now that I’m making them come to the calls the first four weeks, some people are getting a little lax in what they’re doing between the calls, which wasn’t the case before. I saw it in a couple of people, and I was like, “Hmm, is this just them or is this an overall trend that I need to address?”

But I do feel like I have never been someone who sent like wake- weekly emails that was like, “Hey, you did this. Where are you on this?” And so coming into Q3, I am keeping the four pre-scheduled calls, but I am also gonna start doing midweek check-ins so that I make sure that people are sending me things and not waiting until one or two days before the call in order to work on things.

One of the things that makes it hard is I have client calls on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and so midweek is different to both of those days. But I’ve just… I have to get it in my head where I’m gonna send one group an email on a Monday and one group an email on a Friday, um, just as a check-in, just to make sure that they are, you know, working on what they need to work on, they have the support that they need.

So I mean, the change was wonderful, but that is something that I need to find a way to address so that I don’t just have people waiting for a call. The other thing that I ended up doing was, even though the first four are pre-scheduled and then they have access to me on Fridays for an SOS call, I have actively with several of my clients when their fourth call comes, I’m like, “Would you like to still meet on this day and time the next week?”

Some people like it, some people need it. Some people are like, “Oh no, I’m good. Like, I’ll just schedule on a Friday if I need it.” And so having both of those options available I think is still the way to go going into Q3. But Q3 is kind of weird, which is what you and I are gonna talk about today, uh, for the re- the remainder of this interview or this chat.

Because I go into Q3 and I’ve got clients that are overwhelmed with their client load and just managing the sessions as you do as well. I remember one of the first times that you launched, uh, Route to Rise for fall, you were unsure if people would sign up because they would feel like they were in the thick of busy season and just couldn’t handle it.

So I’m currently sitting with that right now.

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah. I will say the only other update that I really have to Q2 is my ads and how they did. That was really a big focus for me was getting back into ad strategy. And so ahead of the Root to Rise launch, I was like, “Okay, it’s time to like start actively doing the things.” I had ads running to a low-ticket offer, and then I also had ads running to grow my audience, and then I had kind of awareness ads for the program, not being sent directly to a checkout page, but being sent to like a CTA to get on the wait list and that kind of thing.

So I had three different types of ads running, and, for the most part, they were all successful in different ways, so they were doing different things, which was really cool. My low-ticket offer did exactly what it’s supposed to. It brought me buyers and it brought me… I was profitable in the selling of the offer versus the ad spend, which is good.

I didn’t make a ton of money, but I more than broke even, 

Colie: Broke even, mm-hmm

Sabrina: Yeah, and then the, uh, engagement ads did bring me some new followers. I had stalled out on my followers for a little bit, um, for a few months, which was really frustrating, and that kind of got things going again, which was, was really helpful ahead of the launch.

Uh, because as much as I don’t ever wanna harp on like follower number, at the end of the day, more eyes is more eyes, you know? And, it is important to be growing slowly and steadily. A- and I won’t always run follower ads, but this was the right time to do that, and I’ll do it again in the future at some point.

The awareness ads to the program that I had going brought me followers, but they didn’t bring me a ton of the call to action commenting, so they didn’t actually help me grow the wait list, which is interesting. You know, it’s, it’s one of those things where you learn from the process, right? And I could do it a little bit differently next time.

It wasn’t a huge failure that the ad spend wasn’t a ton, so I don’t feel like I wasted money. But so it was good overall, to get back in there. Now I have everything turned off now that the launch is done. My next step is I’m actually going to tweak the creative for my low-ticket offer and turn that back on because it was doing well, so I’m just gonna turn it back on and let it keep going.

And then I am in an ads program right now, and one of the strategists in the program had suggested some changes to, like engagement type ads now that the launch is over. So I’m gonna turn that on just to see because I like to play and see what happens. So, and then I, I am going to turn on… I’m gonna choose one of my freebies to turn on to an ad ’cause I have not done, email list growth ads since last fall, and I’m gonna kick one of those back off.

I just need to pick which one I’m gonna do.

Colie: Yeah. Okay, that reminds me of two more updates that I have. So first, I have a new freebie, and it’s one that I’ve actually been planning for a while, and I think that it’s the one that I am finally like, “This is what I want people to get in order to become ready to really work on a seamless client experience in their business.”

It’s called Mind the Gap, and it’s like a two-part freebie. It is a Notion planner to help you sit at your desk or your couch or wherever it is that you do this and actually write down the milestones and the touchpoints that you want to work on with every single client that comes through your offer. So it’s a place to organize.

It’s a place to brain dump. It’s a place to make sure that your client experience is as good as it can be. And then there’s a 20-minute video training to tell you my perspective on how you make sure that your client journey doesn’t have huge communication gaps in this way. So I turned it on a few weeks ago.

I think I currently have 50 people who have signed up for it, which isn’t bad. But, like, this is the one that I think I’m preparing to put out to more avenues in order to get more followers to come in. The other thing that I wanted to talk about, ’cause you mentioned it, was a wait list. And so I am personally curious because you know that I am in Launch Your Own Way with Kelsey McCormick, and she’s big on wait lists, and I have just personally never found that they worked well with me.

But now I need to clarify what that means. When someone signs up for my wait list, I mean, the conversion rate is extremely high. Like, I don’t get a lot of people to my wait list, but once they’re on my wait list, I’ve only actually had a couple people who haven’t converted from a wait list onto whatever the offer was.

But oddly enough, in this particular launch for Systems in Session, I’ve had several people that have signed up for the wait list, and they aren’t converting, and so this is like new territory for me. I am wondering, did your wait list for this launch perform differently than in the past?

Sabrina: I’m looking at my list right now I think it’s about the same. I think, uh, about 40% of the women that joined came from my wait list, is normal. I always have a very large wait list relatively speaking for how big the offer is, and, I don’t get the conversion rate that you do from my wait list just because I 

Colie: but my convert- my wait list is not that big though, so even though the percentage is big, I mean, you and I probably have the same numbers. I was just really surprised that people active… And I have two wait lists right now, I think, which is compounding my, “Okay, but you joined this wait list and you didn’t act…”

Like, the wait list bonus expired and you didn’t grab it. And I just know that these people are gonna join. It’s like, but why didn’t you join before the bonus

Sabrina: For me, Root to Rise is kind of a unique thing because it has, I I don’t wanna say it has like a cult-like following, but people are

Colie: have a cult following

Sabrina: people are oddly always interested in what’s next, who are the guests gonna be, what are the dates, and where is the retreat? Like, people are nosy as hell, and they wanna know what’s going on.

So I do think I have more people to my wait list that aren’t genuinely ever gonna join. They just wanna be the first to know whatever the thing is, right? So I, I do think that’s an interesting thing. But what I do is when I am actively launching, and we can talk about this, uh, when we talk about how it went, I am always watching like a hawk who’s clicking by name, what days, which emails.

I mean, I’m constantly in there, like keeping a list of who’s doing what. And so I can see the women who have been on the wait list for multiple runs who are clicking and reading multiple times and multiple runs and still haven’t joined, and I’m like, “I gotta figure out a way to reach out to you guys, because you’re obviously very, very interested in the program if you are still watching,” right?

Colie: I was gonna say are very nosy, but yes

Sabrina: Yeah, and I can kinda tell. The, I mean, I have people on my wait list that aren’t even really my target audience, and I’m like, “You’re just on here ’cause you wanna know what I’m doing.” You know? Which, whatever. It is what it is

Colie: I mean, I had somebody recently, and I mean, you know, this is just me being very honest and f- you know, o-on the podcast. I had somebody recently that sent me a VideoAsk, ’cause you know that that’s how I qualify people now. I don’t necessarily hop on sales calls with everyone. Asked me a question about support, and I answered it, and I thought that she was a potential client.

And then she’s grabbed a few freebies, and then she came to my, live training last month, and on that training I realized she is another system strategist. So I’ve got some real feelings about this.

Sabrina: Oh, no

Colie: are a system strategist and you wanna ask me what kind of support I offer, I am happy to share. I mean, I, I

Sabrina: But don’t be sneaky through the back door.

Colie: so when you talk about going to your wait list and seeing when people click, you and I are both very upfront with people. This is what we do. We are watching when you click. We are watching which

wait 

Sabrina: I can see what you’re doing.

Colie: Yes. And so the fact that I have spent so much time and follow-up to check back in.

“Have you made a decision? Do you have any questions?” And you are just someone who offers the same thing that I do. It, it, it came, it came to a head last night, and, uh, you and I are gonna talk about this when the podcast is done. But I am just, like, flabbergasted that I am in this position. Again, I don’t really gatekeep.

If you wanted to know how my offer works, I’m happy to tell you, but I am irritated at the amount of time that I feel like I have wasted over the last few weeks checking back in, because I legitimately thought that they were a lead, a potential client

Sabrina: That’s just, it’s gross. It’s rude. It’s inauthentic. Like, how many words that are not curse words can I say about it? It’s terrible. And, you know, we see this, I, I mean, I know that I see this with women I coach where they have either copied somebody else’s website copy or somebody is copying theirs, right?

Like, but come on, that’s ridiculous. Uh, that’s… Anyway, yeah, we’ll talk about it more. I’m so sorry.

Colie: Well, let’s get into your launch. We’re gonna start with yours because it’s technically done, and mine is still in the middle. So how did the launch go? What was your goal? How are you feeling about the new formatting of Root to Rise? I mean, how are the people feeling? ‘Cause, you know, you’ve announced all these changes, and I personally know as someone who has a bigger role in Root to Rise, I mean, I have been a coach the entire time except for this last run, but be– or I guess I have been a guest expert.

Sabrina: You’ve been a participant in one way or Yes, the whole time except for this last run. And I got several people that sent me DMs that were like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to see you on the page.” And I was like,

Not new. Yeah, not new news. That’s funny. I always launch Root to Rise in layers. Okay? I have alumni that, like I said, my alumni have a really high return rate. I give alumni first dibs, and then a few days later, my first class lounge members get dibs, and then the wait list, and then the public.

So it is a very… Technically, my cart open is real long if you take everybody into consideration, okay? Like a solid month, a solid 30 days. And every group gets a different amount of discounts, a different amount of priority, and whatever. And I’ve always launched it that way, and I feel really good about launching it that way.

It takes care of my people, right? The most important people get taken care of first. but it does energetically take a lot, ’cause I’m technically in launch mode for a very long time. Um, I will say, though, that those first couple weeks when it’s open to just alumni and then first class lounge, energetically it doesn’t take as much out of me because those women know me, they trust me.

I’m not having to hard sell anyone. They, they know if they’re in or out, right? They, they’re ready or they’re not, and that’s fine. But this time, my cart open date happened right after summer camp was over, and that was an intentional move because whenever I host a retreat, I have a lot of extra eyes on me because everybody’s sharing and tagging and everybody’s watching, and I love it.

It’s great. So intentionally, I was like, “As soon as summer camp’s over, we’re gonna open a cart for Root to Rise while all eyes are on me.” And going into summer camp, I had all of my launch emails scheduled. I had all of my content mapped out, a lot of it created. I was, like, ready to go. The problem, the problem is that as soon as summer camp was over, I stayed in Maine for another five or six days, and my family came up and met me.

So I was technically on vacation. Listeners, I need you to hear that I tell all my students never to do that. Do not launch when you’re on vacation. In theory, it sounds like you can. Like, “Oh, I’ll just have everything scheduled. It’ll be fine.” Energetically, you’re not there. You are not there. You’re not there for the extra check-ins, the extra messages, the, the whatever.

You’re not really giving it your due diligence. And I came back from Maine, and at that point I had five women that had enrolled, and five is not terrible, but when your goal is 20, you’re very far off. And came home from Maine, and I was supposed to cart close, like, 48 hours after I came home, and I came home full of anxiety.

Like, I was like, “Oh my gosh, what is happening? Nobody’s enrolling. I’m nervous about this. I’m scared about this. This isn’t going well.” And again, like I said earlier, I called on all of my trusted people. I called on you, I called on Maddie, I called on Brianna, I called on all these people and I was like, “What’s the deal?

Why do I feel like this? What can I do? W- what do I need to shift?” And after talking it through with my people, I was like, “You know what? I just, I need to extend the deadline.” Like, I am the boss. I can do whatever I want. I’m the one that made up this arbitrary deadline in the first place. And the more I sat with that, the more I was like, “Yeah, this feels better.

I’m gonna give it an extra, a full extra week, and I’m home from vacation. I can really drop into launch mode, and start messaging people, and connect with people, and show up, and create more content and all the things.” That felt really good to me, and I’m very, very happy that I did that because, uh, technically cart closed last night at midnight, at time of recording, and I have nine women enrolled now, which is definitely not my goal of 20, but it’s not the smallest group I’ve ever had either.

I technically still have two women pending that needed a little bit more time to chat, so maybe one or both of them will decide to join today. But I feel so much better about it because even though I didn’t hit my goal, I am 100% confident that I gave it my all. I did everything I could.

I’m really proud of how I showed up. I’m really proud of the extra content and the extra emails that went out. I love that I get to, got to have intentional conversations with women. So yeah, that’s where we, that’s where we ended up, nine, possibly 11. And we start next week, which this is something that is new to Root to Rise.

Normally enrollment is about a month before the program starts, but this time we are enrolling and immediately starting because one of the changes is the program is longer. It is now six months, so we’ll go all the way through the end of the year. So we start next week, and I’m very, very excited about that.

Another small change which you will appreciate, I don’t know that the listeners will appreciate, is I am finally, finally, it’s the eighth run of this program, my friends, I have finally outsourced my welcome packages.

Colie: A-hoob-a-boop!

Sabrina: I have finally outsourced my welcome packages, and I am jazzed about it because this is, again, we talk about this all the time, outsourcing to give, put people into their expertise.

Not only am I gonna save myself time, but it’s gonna be done better, and I am so jazzed. I have a friend here locally who owns, like, a gifting company, and they have some customized things. They put together some really fun things, and they’re gonna, like, zhuzh it up and mail it out, and I’m excited about that.

Yeah.

Colie: Something off of your plate. That’s always amazing, Sabrina So from my perspective, the reason that my launch is not going as well as it could, should, whatever word it is that we’re gonna use, is I think that I chose really piss-poor timing. And I did it because, in case you’re listening and you don’t know, my birthday is just a few weeks away.

My husband’s birthday is the same week. My kid’s birthday is 10 days after that. So traditionally, I have taken off a chunk of every summer to go to Disney. Now, we are not going to Disney, but I have decided I still deserve my sabbatical. So I planned all of my launch activity, opening the cart, telling people that, you know, now is the time to book in for Systems in Session.

And the truth is, I’m doing it earlier than I actually needed to do it. And so I’m getting a lot of people that are kind of confused. I mean, one person specifically who wanted to join was like, “Oh, no, but I don’t have time in July.” And I was like, “But I’m not booking for July.” It’s like people are not even hearing me when I’m saying, “This is enrollment for after my sabbatical.

You don’t get a start date until after August 12th.” So I do have a little bit of regret around the timing that I did because… And I did it intentionally because with that move that you and I talked about in the Q2 Business Bestie chat, I folded Email Like You Mean It, now known as The Experience Edit, into Systems in Session.

And so my brilliant idea was, let’s do this before I go on my sabbatical so that my people have extra time to kind of sit with the things that they’ve created, look at their client journey one more time, reread the emails that they write, so that when we start in August or, you know, early September, they’ve had a lot of time to kind of sit, and they are ready to go.

Because the whole idea of giving you The Experience Edit on top of Systems in Session is if we take care of your client journey and your client communication now, you can get even more inside of your 60 days. But I’ve never tried to do this over the summer when most of my ideal clients are home with their children.

And I thought that I had planned content that, you know, kind of nurtured you into figuring out how this could work because you’re home and, like, these things, but my content is not hitting as expected. And it’s okay. I mean, if I was… If this was me and I was trying to fill seats for next week, I would be very paranoid.

I mean, but the truth is, I’m now filling seats for people who aren’t gonna start for at least six weeks. And so I have plenty of time to fill them. I’m not feeling paranoid about that. I am just regretting the timeline that I chose. And, you know, once I had people that bought The Experience Edit, it’s not like I’m gonna move it.

I mean, I’ve, I’ve already sold seats to the part that happens in July. So I just feel like I’m in a really weird spot, and I’m just gonna go with it. And if it works itself out, it does, and if it doesn’t, it’s okay because I have lots of experience with people joining Systems in Session. I mean, the last client that joined found me literally on a Monday.

She found my podcast. She binged it. She sent me a VideoAsk. I sent her a reply. The next morning she joined. So that’s usually what happened with people when they find me and they’re ready to attack their systems. So I have plenty of time to fill my spots. It’s just going much slower than anticipated, and I am very much regretting this timeline that I chose.

Like you said, arbitrary timeline. I had my reasons, but I will definitely not do this next summer

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah. And I have never launched, launched Root to Rise in the summer, you know? We normally historically would start a little bit later in July, but we would have launched in May. And so a- again, you’re right, like, the attention of people are on vacation, they’re with their kids, they’re at camps, and, and it’s harder.

I will say that the conversations I had with women, and then also y- you mentioned VideoAsk, you and I talked earlier this week and I did set up a VideoAsk, and that got me some really cool feedback. But, what I’m hearing more of is I, I always hear price, right? “I’m nervous to spend that money.” But the underlying thing is not actually that it’s the price, it’s that people don’t trust it, and because they’ve been burned.

I have had that conversation with so many people, and I want to pull my hair out because how 

dare other people ruin it for everybody else. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t care if you’re some big name educator and you think you can get away with under-delivering, and over-promising, and not showing up for your people, but you’re causing a problem for everybody else.

Like, that’s part of the t- trust deficit that everybody is experiencing, and, uh, like, that sucks that I have to overcome the problem that you’ve created, you know?

Colie: It’s so interesting because I haven’t heard that at all. My people are afraid… ‘Cause, I mean, you know, it- in honesty, Root to Rise and Systems in Session this round were almost the same price. So we are talking about the same price point. What I’m hearing is that people don’t wanna spend the money and waste it if they don’t have enough time to commit to doing the thing.

That’s the objection that I’m getting most, which, I mean, you know, there’s only so many times that I can tell you, “I gave you 60 days, but you don’t need 60 days.” Like, I gave you 60 days to account for the fact that you might need to go on vacation. But one of the things that I let, several of my clients do this summer is they took a pause.

Like I I had one client, I was so jealous, Sabrina. She went to Walt Disney World,

Sabrina: Hmm.

Colie: “You didn’t take me with you.” Like, no, I don’t wanna sit here on this call and

Sabrina: Yeah.

Colie: talk about your vacation. I love you. I’m happy that you’re back, but also, I’m very jealous right now inside. But I did allow people, I mean, a one-week or a two-week break so that you weren’t losing anything.

You felt like you could enjoy your vacation and not feel like you had to continue to do stuff. But again, the truth is, I give you 60 days because you don’t need 60 days. But I mean, that’s like just one of the things that I was trying to make sure that I talked about in my content. Listen, I mean, we’re gonna be doing this.

If you have a vacation, I have a vacation. You see, you are dead to me my entire sabbatical, which is why I have planned everything this way. But I just… I want people to know that, you know, taking the time, it, it is well worth it even if you set up your systems, y- the microsystems. Every one that you build gives you time, and that time compounds as it goes forward

Sabrina: yeah. And I think that’s, I think it’s true that you’re not getting the same objection I am because our programs are different. Yours is giving them a concrete result, like we’re going to have your system set up in this platform, and then you’re gonna carry it forward. Mine is a, a broader coaching thing, so that makes sense that yours is a time and mine is a trust thing.

But it, I, I just can’t tell you how frustrating it is to hear how many educators out there are just dishonest. Uh, uh, I, like I can’t even fathom, like why are you out, why are you out on the streets doing this if you’re not g- I just, I can’t even… That goes against every fiber of my being to n- to not, like I can’t fathom not giving somebody my all.

So I, I just, you know, when I hear these stories about coaches and programs and courses or whatever, uh, I just am flabbergasted. I’m like, “Well, I don’t know what to tell you. I can give you referrals of people who’ve been in my program that you can talk to. I can tell you till I’m blue in the face. I can remind you that my program has been super long-running, and I don’t think it would’ve been as long-running if it wasn’t what it says it is,” you know?

But at the end of the day, people are just scared because they’ve taken a chance and given somebody a lot of money before and been burned, and it sucks to have to clean up somebody else’s mess, you know?

Colie: Yes. And I mean, it’s, it’s one of the things, it, it’s kind of odd because right now I have several people that are finishing their 30 days where, you know, I’m, I’m not promising that you’re gonna get your signature offer set up in 30 days, but it’s definitely our goal now. And quite frequently, I have people that the moment that they set up the booking portion of Systems and Sessions, so that’s just one phase of like five phases that we set up.

But a lot of people, if they tackle that and they get it done, they get to use it with incoming leads while they’re still working on the rest. So in particular, I have a birth photographer, I just got off a call with her before we hit record for this, and she’s not finished with her full system. She is like one week away from, you know, having fully done workflows, but she’s already booked three clients just off of the booking workflow

Sabrina: That’s so

Colie: created on a call.

So I do think that when you can show people these micro wins before you have fully done whatever, you know, you’re s- the result that you’re supposed to get at the end of this program, I do think that that really can help with the trust level, and it’s happened to me so many times, in particular with the booking phase.

Because when people have this proposal that, you know, does all the things that it should and makes it easy for someone to say yes, they’re always like, “Wow, that was so easy. I can’t wait to do the rest of it.” Yes, now you have two weeks. Can we, can we go

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So giving people the micro wins and the helping them build trust reminds me, um, I was talking with my content strategist yesterday, and we were talking about how weird this launch has been and, like, what are we gonna do about it for the next time? Because Roots Rise will be enrolling again this fall, and I want to not be in the same position again if I can, uh, if I can help it.

And she suggested letting people buy, like, a trial week in the program

Colie: What did I tell you last week?

Sabrina: Yeah. Sh- well, she, she goes, she said she’s seen a couple of her clients do that, and it works really well. And I’m like, “Well, talk to me about that,” because part of me is like, oh yeah, that makes sense, but then part of me is like, but they’d be jumping in in the middle and when it makes sense. And she’s like, “Well, what if it was either, like, a very specific topic that you teach that people want to know, or a really cool guest expert call?”

And they get the whole week, so that means they would get the coaching call, and then they would get the office hours call, and then maybe they even got, get access to the Circle community just for that week to see what, like, the vibe is there. Um, and then she’s like, “If you did that early enough in the fall, it could be like a, you know, did you enjoy this?”

And then they get on a wait list or they get a special… I don’t know. I don’t know how it would work out. It also could mess up the vibe of everything, so I, I’m not sure. I have to think about it, but it is interesting to think about letting people in for a very small price point. Um, yeah.

Colie: I, I really wish that you guys could see my face. 

Sabrina: Ha! 

Colie: it, it, you, listen, I mean, the funny thing is, when did we have that call, Sabrina? That was a week ago, right? That was Monday. No, it was Monday. Okay, it was four days ago, guys. I literally told Sabrina that I was thinking of doing this for Systems in Session, and she did her job.

She said, “Okay, but, like, what about this and what about this?” And I thought long and hard. You see, I didn’t automatically go make a sales page. It is four days later and I don’t have a sales page. But I really do think that, like, having someone do a trial in whatever it is… Because I really enjoy when I am able to, if you will, try before you buy.

Like Chelsea Quint, she has been on this, on this podcast. She was my CMO. I hired her to do a sales dashboard, and even before I had fully implemented it, on the call where I was supposed to get to ask her questions, I was like, “No, no, no. Just talk to me about the bigger offer. 

Sabrina: Yeah. Just sell me.

Colie: Exactly. And I mean, that was going from a $1,500 to- investment to a $4,500 investment, but, like, I was ready. I just need you to give me the details so that I can, you know, and send me a link so that I can hit yes. But I do think that right now, in a trust recession, if I, I mean, I think that’s the first time you and I have used those words, or at least I’m using them now.

But inside of a trust recession like we are right now, this whole concept of seeing what it’s like and, you know, like, with your own eyes, if you will, I think is something that we are gonna see a lot more of. And I’m so, like, interested to hear that you and Jane had this conversation. I wish I was on the call when you were having

it. 

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it’s an in- and again, I’m glad I have time to think about this because logistically it could get a little messy. You know what I mean? It’s like you wanna price it right, you want to sell it as its own thing, but if I’m gonna be selling it right before a launch, that’s kind of complicated.

And, and so, you know, and then like the technical side of like letting people in and then kicking people out, and giving them enough of it to where they can see the benefit and hear you coach and community, but not giving them too much that it takes away from the… You know, like it’s a little messy. But I’ve got time, and I do think it’s an interesting concept to consider.

Um, price-wise, I have no idea. Because originally, to be honest, originally said Jaden suggested letting them onto one call. And I thought interesting, but I don’t think they’d get the full vibe without a week. Because I, I would want them to participate in the coaching and also the questions and the answers because that’s like where the community vibe is.

And then like the circle community, like I, I really think they wouldn’t get a full picture unless it was a whole week. So but what do you charge for that? Because you don’t wanna charge less than the weekly rate of what people have joined, ’cause that’s gonna piss people off, and I would never do that to my students.

But then if you’re talking about a couple hundred dollars, it’s not really a micro offer anymore, you know?

Colie: I mean, the price point that I was thinking of was somewhere between 350 to 450,

Sabrina: Oh, okay

Colie: you know, it was going to… The thing that it was going to include for me and that I was contemplating is, you know I have these results that I promise, right? And basically, it’s like a result per phase inside of your workflows.

And so one of the things that I was playing around with was you get to choose which one of these results you want to work on for a week. And for me, that might include a template, it might include something else, which was why I was thinking I would price it slightly higher. Also, my offer would be the one-to-one call to kick it off, and then you basically get a week of like support tickets, that you can submit for feedback and questions.

So mine was gonna be like a little bit more than, than you would be doing for a group. But I, either way, and I don’t, I don’t necessarily know… Here’s the thing that I’m gonna throw in for you. I know that what Jayden was like was invite them into the community, but I’m wondering if you couldn’t just make that its own micro like one-week offer just for the people who sign up so that you don’t have to worry about the letting them in and out, the tech frustrations of getting

Sabrina: Yeah, and you know what else just popped into my mind? If I made it like, I’d have to come up with some great name, which you could help me with ’cause you’re so good at this. But what if it was almost like a hybrid of like a sprint and that? And you’re right, like it got its own community, but it also got its own welcome call.

So maybe it wasn’t just … Maybe there was a couple of calls just for them, and then they got to participate with the whole group a couple of times. So it’s m-

Colie: I

Sabrina: then maybe you’re talking three or f- yeah.

Colie: I mean, I think, I, I mean, and, you know, I like the weekly thing, but maybe even 10 days so that it went over a weekend. And I mean, you know, most people are not doing things on weekends anyways. But like having something just for them, letting them participate in a bigger call with the bigger Route to Rise community.

I mean, you could even have alumni on that call. I mean, I could think of fun ways to like,

Sabrina: Sure,

Colie: invest yourself in the community that you have built a little bit more. But I do think that when it comes to like this, well, how does it work? Like seeing is believing. And so I do think that we are just gonna see more people doing something like this, so I mean, I already mentioned Kelsey McCormick on this call, but she has a wait list offer where she talks about the warm-up, and it is basically a mini version of what she does for her VIP clients in her bigger offer. And I’ve always been fascinated with like the conversion rate from the smaller offer to the bigger offer, because then you’ve experienced the coaching.

You’ve experienced, you know, some, some of the ways that they support you. It may have some kind of template or not. I don’t think that makes sense for you. But in– Overall, you’re getting a taste of what it’s like to be in their world, and if it’s a good fit for you, you will put it as a priority on your education budget or whatever budget it is that you’re setting for the next time that it opens

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, that’s really interesting. The, and the more I think about it, and this is my problem, especially listeners if you don’t know me, Colie’s gonna laugh. I will take an idea and the more I, like it gets bigger and bigger

Colie: Well, I am here to make sure that it doesn’t get bigger

and 

Sabrina: Yeah, it gets big ’cause now I literally just wrote on a sticky note seven to 10 days. They get their own community, their own kickoff call, their own coaching call from me on some topic, and then they get to participate in one of the guest expert calls with the whole group, and then also the whole group office hours call.

And I can invite alumni to participate in that too. Now we’re talking about this whole big thing, but I still think the price point would need to be under $400 for it to be something that people wanna purchase. You know? That’s, I feel like over the $400 mark is where people are really hitting pause

Colie: I feel like, so you wanna make sure that it’s not more than the weekly, you know, the weekly, rate for Root to Rise. But I would argue that if you let your current Root to Rise people join it as a bonus, you don’t need to be so worried about making sure that the price point is under. I think it’s more of a this is what it’s like.

You wanna make it at a price point to where lots of people are joining that have absolutely no intention of working with you in the future. I mean, that’s why you don’t charge $49, although you and I would never do that. But you know what I’m saying. Like, it has to be an amount of money that people are investing so that you know that people are serious and they’re not just joining to join.

However, I don’t actually know that it has to meet the weekly price point. I’m not convinced of that, especially if it’s a group, especially if you’re telling the Root to Rise people if they wanna join, you know, they can join for free because they’re already part of this, you know, fall’s run or whatever it is.

But I mean, you guys just witnessed live what we do on Voxer

Sabrina: This is how we ideate things. This is how we ideate things. Yeah, so I’m gonna have to think on that, uh, as far as like what would make sense. But it is interesting to think about building that in potentially to like a pre-launch runway of a program and letting people try you out so that they can trust you.

But what’s funny about this is I’m like, if people wanted to trust me, they could just join First Class Lounge for $44.

Colie: And that also needs to be your argument

Sabrina: Like, uh, what are we doing? And I tell people that ahead of the Root to Rise launch every time. I’m like, “Listen, the women in first class lounge get a $300 discount. I’m asking you to pay $44 to experience me,” and it, like, the math makes so much sense. I don’t understand why more people don’t do it. It’s hilarious.

But

Colie: I mean, but you know I have my equivalent, but it’s not cheap. I mean, it’s $250 to get an audit from me. But, like, you get the audit, you can take that money within 30 days and apply it towards systems and session. And I’m literally telling you what’s wrong with your systems. If you can take my list and, and do it yourself, have at it.

But at least you’ve had my expert eyes on there. I mean, I don’t know why people don’t hire me for audits more often. I, I literally don’t understand. This is the best way, because one of the biggest objections that I get is, “Oh, I mean, my systems could always be improved, but they’re not that bad.” Okay, fine.

Pay me $250 so that I can show you all the holes. You can plug them yourself, or you can work with me and we’ll do it together. But, like, I give you that option

Sabrina: Have you ever done a push for audits

ahead of a system and session, systems and session launch?

Like timing it like that?

Colie: I haven’t done it ahead. I’ve actually done it during the launch. I have actually done it where I have offered the audit for 50% off.

I’m like, “Listen, you’ve been paying attention. You might be one of those people that is wondering if your systems could actually benefit from working with me. Here is a coupon code for an audit. I’ll still let you apply it towards Systems in Session for the next 30 days. Let me show you.” I mean, and I’ve had four or five people convert from audits into Systems in Session, but, like, I feel like that number of people asking me to look should be higher because you guys tell me that, you know, that you need the help, but then you, you don’t want the audit.

It just… ‘Cause a lot of my people think that they know what needs to be fixed, and I’m like, “There’s a difference between you thinking you know and me actually showing you on the back end while I’m reviewing, you know, your client experience.” But I can’t force you to do it. All I can do is say, “Here it is.”

And someone had an, an idea, to where I should do the audit push after the launch. That’s actually what I’m gonna try this time. I am gonna try a downsell of the audit when this launch is completely done, and technically the, those emails will be going out while I’m on my sabbatical. So everybody is warned

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, I really should do a downsell on the other side of Root to Rise. The problem is, again, after you launch something for 30 days, I’m like,

“I don’t really wanna downsell anything,” you know? So, uh, but I do need to be thinking about what’s next, and that’s something that we keep talking about is when you don’t hit your numbers as planned, you’ve gotta find a way to fill the gap.

So we’re gonna get creative and see if we can fill that gap

Colie: Well, the interesting thing is… Rats, I should have actually figured out when this podcast episode was going live because I don’t think I’m spoiling it by saying it. I had already decided that I was going to do a, offer of Colie on Call, which is my retainer offer, for fall in a way that I haven’t done it before.

I am actually going to sell one s- you know, one Colie on Call offer for entire fall, and the thing is, it’s like I’m in your back pocket as your tech support, your business coach for your busiest season, is the idea behind the positioning. By the time this goes live, that should have already gone out to my previous clients, and if not, hi, it’s coming soon.

Sabrina: No, I think this is supposed to go out in not this, I think next week or week after next. It’s pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s exciting. I love that. I love that. , I like that I get to have Colie on call all the time.

Colie: I mean, it is one of the benefits of being my business bestie, but I can’t have more business besties. Oh my gosh, who was I joking around with? Somebody asked me something after I had Becca on the podcast, and I said, “Well, Becca can’t replace Sabrina.” I said, “But boy, if I lived in California…” I

Sabrina: That’s funny. That’s funny

Colie: Okay, so let’s wrap this up. Like, where are we going from here? We’re both just going to progress into serving the people who have joined us for Q3, and by the time the next business bestie chat rolls around, we’ll have an idea of what we’re doing for Q4, which, you know, is Black Friday and all of those things that Colie avoids nonstop

Sabrina: That is true. That is true. I, uh, in real time, again, I, I, I’m like 12 hours post my launch wrap-up, and so I’m just ready to back up a little bit and take a break from all the emails, take a break from all the content, not be on social media constantly, and like you said, focus on serving the women that have joined the program and that have trusted me with their time and their money, and I cannot wait to work with these women.

Colie: I can’t wait to work with you either.

Sabrina: yeah, I know. Colie’s one of our co-coaches this time, and I’m, I’m really excited to see how great this new format works, um, ’cause I think it’s gonna be really, really incredible. And one thing that I did not do well last spring that I am recommitted to doing better with this run of the program that I’m gonna be interested to see if makes a difference is last spring’s run, I was a horrible job at sharing in real time what was happening with the program

Colie: Okay, you and I, commitment

Sabrina: I normally am so good at that.

I normally share the weekly ca- like a photo from the weekly call, and I tag people, and I blah, blah, blah. And I did, I literally dropped the ball and basically only did it like three times during our whole five months together, and I’m interested to see if that quietly played a part in… So we’ll see. So I’m gonna pick it back up and do a better job.

I’m recommitting

Colie: Yeah, I mean, I, I know that I need to do a better job. In fact, it’s in my notion for me to share, like, this week in Sis, and now that I have my weekly newsletter, called Full Disclosure, by the way, it comes out on Fridays.

Sabrina: names are so good. Oh my gosh

Colie: Go to coliejames.com/subscribe. But now that I’m doing that, I am trying to purposely share what I have done with my clients during that week, because I really do think that it not only helps to promote what I do with my clients, but it also makes people think about the things that they could be doing th- with their systems that they’re not currently doing, whether you choose to work with me or not.

I mean, I think that that is a great thing. Now, if I could just extend that into putting it on the podcast or doing it on threads. I really do feel like I do need more client content that is not, “Here’s a final case study.” I need more of, “This is what we’re doing in the moment. This is what I built with my clients this week,” kind of thing

Sabrina: Yeah. I would love to see you do that. I would love to see you do that on Threads, even if it was just once a week, like, you 

Colie: I did it this week. I think I did it last week

too. 

Sabrina: I love that. But I think it’d be cool for your solo episodes if at the end maybe you were like, I don’t know. I feel like that could be a little excerpt somewhere.

I know you’re not gonna get on Instagram, so I’m not gonna tell you to do that, but I, I do think there’s a level of people … People are nosy, but also it creates this FOMO of like, “Oh, she had this stuff done, and 

Colie: You would be proud of me. I ideated a series and it hasn’t gone live yet, but it’s supposed to go live next week. I’m calling it the three Rs, and I’m sharing my client wins related to reviews, referrals, or retention. I mean, I have 12 of them planned. I just need to record these little short videos and put them out.

But I mean, I did. That, that’s on my list of things to do, uh, for the next three weeks. So we’ll see if it starts. It’s supposed to start on Monday.

Sabrina: Okay. I

Colie: Okay.

Sabrina: that. I’m here for that. I’m 

Colie: All right. Guys, we went over a little bit today. We are so sorry. We had so much shit to discuss. We love the fact that you are here and that this is probably your favorite podcast that either Sabrina and I do.

We appreciate each and every one of you. But that’s it for this Business Bestie Chat. We would love to see you back next quarter, where we can tell you if we actually got through Q3, what we did, and what we’re planning for Q4. So Sabrina, thank you as always for being here

Sabrina: It was a great chat, my friend. I love our rambles. I 

Colie: was all right. That’s it for this episode we will see you next quarter.

Sabrina: Bye.