Everyone’s an AI Expert ft. Kara Duncan

Kara: Colie, and to everyone listening, I’m so excited to be here. I’m Kara. You’ve heard me on the podcast before with the Kara Report, and today I actually get to ask Colie questions about her latest endeavor, and I’m so excited to dive in.

Colie, welcome to your own podcast.

Colie: Thank you so much for having me. I mean, I would say that, but also I invited you and we’re in my Riverside studio, and so, like, maybe it’s thank you for coming on to interview me. But I am excited to talk about, you know, AI tools and building apps and, like, all of the things. And I feel like if I was doing this solo, it would be like a runaway episode where I look up and 45 minutes later I still haven’t actually made a fucking point.

So thank you so much for coming on here to do this for me.

Kara: No, I’m so excited. And I know you asked me, but really I pitched myself ’cause you were like, “I think I’m gonna have someone ask me.” And I am like, “I volunteer as tribute,” because I have questions and I know your listeners are gonna have so many questions, too. So just to, like, kick things off, you took a birthday sabbatical and no resting happened.

Like

Colie: we even call it a sabbatical? I

Kara: I

don’t think so 

Colie: technically it kicked off before my birthday. Honestly, I did have four days off. I did have four days off because I didn’t start building… Well, actually that’s a lie. I don’t remember, I don’t remember when I started building the smaller tools.

I definitely started building the actual app on July 31st. But I feel like earlier that week I built, what? One or two quizzes. I mean, I jumped in, and I built some things, but it wasn’t until July 31st when I actually started building the app, which was a couple days into my sabbatical. I mean, maybe I got a couple days, but that entire sabbatical, four hours of sleep each night, and I have the proof from all of my GitHub submissions and commits, which I mean, you know, I’ve created this whole nice report, which eventually I might share with other people, but like, I definitely have proof that there was no sleep

Kara: There was no sleep. And I feel like you have talked about having a sabbatical on the podcast before, but I think you usually plan to get, like, a few little odds and ends done during that time, right? Like, it’s time to unplug from client work, but, like, one or two things. D- is that where this started? Or, like, how did it turn into what it was?

Colie: Okay, so you know me, my husband, my daughter, we all have birthdays in the same two-week period. And so traditionally, I’m talking about when Chloe was like younger, like even before I had a business, that is when I would tell my husband to take an annual vacation. We used to go to the East Coast.

There’s this amusement park called Sesame Place. Yes, I was obsessed with Sesame Place before I was obsessed with Disney. But we took her there like several years in a row, and at that point, she was obsessed with all the Sesame Street characters. I mean, we would go, we would have fun, but like my husband always took a vacation.

And then when I had my own business and my child was home and we stopped taking an annual vacation, I was still taking off from work just so that I could enjoy my birthday. Now, I know no one will be surprised by this, but my birthday is at the end of the month, but I take the entire month of July to celebrate me.

So really, the sabbatical was like, this is this, you know, it’s about my family, but the entire earlier part of the month was always about me

Kara: No, I, I love that. I love it when people are birthday people, and I also love it when people are like, I don’t know, get that unplugged time and then you get a really great idea and you have time to act on it. Like

Colie: I will say in previous years I have still done work, but not client work. And I feel like last year, I don’t remember what I did, but I do feel like I– like, like what you said, I did something last year. I don’t remember what it was, but it was something… Oh, I know what it was. It was working on Systems in Session.

That is what I was, like, officially launching, because right before the birthday sabbatical was when I sold the last beta spot, and then when I came back was when I started selling Systems in Session at the original, like, price that it was when I came out of beta. So during my birthday sabbatical, I took a couple days to kind of clean stuff up. And the other thing that I did last year versus other years was I had so many clients that were in progress. I told them, “You’re dead to me for most of the sabbatical,” but I did pick two days. I think it was two days where I was like, “If you need a call, book a call on one of these two days.”

But, like, the rest of the time I was out of office. We did go to Disneyland. That’s what I typically do on a sabbatical.

Kara: Yeah, no, I love it. So how did this sabbatical go? Like, I guess walk us through the short version, and then I’m gonna ask you so many detailed questions of, like, what you started building and what you ended with

Colie: I mean, I literally don’t even know how I got started. I think that it was, I was tired of doing the same things over and over again. I was tired of managing my clients in like Airtable and then all of the forms in Fillout. And, you know, yes, things were centralized in Airtable, but not to the same degree that they’re centralized now.

And so I just kind of thought to myself, “Hey, this would be fun. Let’s see what I can do.” And I think… Oh, I know what else it was. So I’m gonna blame Kenzie and Joyce right now. They are the ladies behind Her AI Club, and that was when they were launching Her AI Plus. And I wanted to join. I was thinking of joining.

I knew that I could like do some AI stuff, but it wasn’t until they shared something that Ashley Tindall built, and to be honest, it doesn’t even matter what it was. It was in an email, and I was like, “Okay, sold.” And you and I both know when I pay money for something, all of a sudden I’m motivated. And the really funny thing is that I joined Her AI Club on like, I don’t know, it was like a Thursday, and then I started building the app on Friday.

But even though I had just paid them, and I paid for a year in advance, because again, when I put my money where my mouth is, I get all kinds of motivated. I actually didn’t use anything in their club to build the first iteration of the… I mean, it was like I paid them all this money, and then I was, I was motivated, and I hopped into Claude Code for the first time, and I literally couldn’t put it down.

Like I was walking around my house holding my laptop, like continuously hitting Enter, saying yes, typing in a new prompt. I mean, that was what I looked like that first night. My computer was just glued to me, and I didn’t walk away. I mean, I was coding until 2:00 AM that first night, and that was when the first iteration of the app was actually done, was at 2:00 AM on August 1st

Kara: Yeah, I love that. I love that it was like, “I signed up for this program,” and instead of jumping into the program, it sparked an idea, and I just, like, ran with it. And Colie, one thing I will say about you as someone who’s, like, worked with you for years now is, like, you are literally one of the quickest action takers I’ve ever met in my life.

it, it’s, it’s amazing. Have you always been like that?

Colie: I have always been like that, but I don’t think it’s always been such a problem. So I feel like in the past I thought it was a good thing. I’m like, “Oh, I’m motivated. I gotta work when the motivation is there.” But like more recently, I feel like it’s more a sign of ADHD, the fact that my brain will literally not turn off until I have finished the thing that I am currently obsessed with.

And you know, we’re just… I’ve already said it in a podcast episode, I’m gonna say it again in case the listening audience missed that one. Uh, me telling you that I finished coding the first iteration at 2:00 AM on August 1st is for a reason, because August 1st is my husband’s birthday. And I woke up at 6:00 AM and he handed me my coffee and I said, “Thanks, honey,” and I immediately started coding again.

And it wasn’t until after 8:00 AM that I was like, “There’s something that I’m missing.” Literally sitting in my bed, “There’s something that I’m missing.” I jumped up, I put clothes on because I think I was half naked, and I ran downstairs and he just looked at me and I said, “Oh my God.” And he’s like, “Hi.” then I started singing “Happy Birthday.”

But I did… I was legitimately awake in my bed coding for almost two and

Kara: With the coffee he handed

Colie: the coffee he handed me on his birthday before I told him happy birthday. Yes

Kara: Oh my God, I love that he just, like, let you cook. He’s like, “She’ll remember eventually.”

Colie: Eventually. Eventually she’ll remember. And this was me. “Okay, but did you have a plan? Like, what if I didn’t remember?” He’s like, “You were eventually gonna remember.” I’m like, “I’m really sorry. I honestly couldn’t tell you what day of the week or the date of the month that it is right now.” Like, and he’s like, “I get it.”

I was like, “Okay, but you’re not a business owner. Like, you, you don’t really get it, but it’s okay. I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with this ’cause it’s benefiting me right now

Kara: Yeah, I’m gonna trust that you get it since that’s the only outcome that we can have from this conversation.

Colie: Pretty much

Kara: Oh my gosh. Okay. So I feel like I’ve seen the final version of the app that you built. Did it have… Like, when did you introduce it to people in Systems in Session?

Colie: Oh, goodness. You know what? Okay, so technically the fact that I built it during the sabbatical was the best thing for me because I wasn’t answering anybody. I wasn’t talking to anybody. So I came back from sabbatical on August 11th or 12th. August 12th was my first client call, and what I did was I had some people who had continued.

So I had four people who started Systems in Session before my sabbatical, and basically they had a sabbatical with me. I gave each of them things that they could do while I was offline, and none of them did shit. Which, hey, if you’re listening, ’cause all of them listen to this podcast, I love you. This is no shade to you.

I just… I– The Monday that my sabbatical started, I went through everyone’s project, what they were working on, and specifically gave them, “If you wanna work while I’m gone, these are the things that you should work on.” And no one did any of it. It’s okay, though. So I came back and when I had those four onboarding calls, I basically looked at them and I said, “Hey, I created this new thing.

I think I mentioned to you that I wanted to, but I created it and it’s completely done and it’s functional. Here’s how you do things going forward.” And so I was telling them, “Here are your support ticket links. Do not use the old one. I’m not looking at them anymore.” And so I s- you know, I walked each of them through the app on that call and said, “Hey, I’m just gonna give you another call to make up for the fact that this is just me showing you all the things.”

And for some of those people, I had to be really specific Because if they were too far along on their original build, I was like, “You’re gonna see a lot of shiny shit in this app. You do not need to go use the mapping tool. You do not need to go and rewrite all your emails.

You can continue from where you’re going. Just know that any support tickets that you submit, any messages that you send me will now be done through the app.” But out of those four people, every single person went in there and jumped into the map tool and basically rebuilt their offer. Like they just did it because they were like, “Well, no, I wanna see if it adds anything else new.”

And newsflash, it did. It gave them a much more comprehensive view of what their client journey could be for their offer. But I didn’t wanna make it mandatory because to me that felt like I was making you do like double duty. I was making you redo things that we had already settled and kind of moved on from.

Kara: Yeah. You’re, like you didn’t want it to be like you’re kind of like forcing them into your new shiny thing, even though said new shiny thing was designed to make everything better for them

Colie: Oh, and I will say, so that’s what I did for my clients who were incoming. I’m gonna give a shout-out to Megan Norman, which if you guys don’t know who Megan is, she’s one of my long-term clients. She was originally a blueprint student, and then she was the person who tested the 30-day version of Systems in Session last summer.

So legitimately, when I built the app, she was actually the first person that I messaged and I said, “Hey, Megan, what are you doing this week?” I’m like, “I built this thing and I need you to hop in and tell me if it sucks.” That was basically how I presented it to her. And she’s like, “Oh, well, I, I have some time this week.

Send it to me.” And I sent it to her and she just started sending me these messages. “Oh my God, how long did this take you to build? Oh my God.” Like, and, and of course it was a nice ego boost ’cause she was like, “I don’t really have any notes. Like this is working, this is like great. Like what else are you planning on doing with this?”

And I was like, “Well, like as soon as you go in there and you do all these things and you tell me that it works, I’m gonna give it to my clients when they come back next week.” So Megan had it a week before. I also gave it to Brittany Herzberg, but she was really busy and like Brittany didn’t jump in until, I would say it took Brittany like 10 days to actually hop in.

Another person who got access, hi Haylee, my podcast manager hopped in there before I gave it to my current clients and my new incoming clients as well.

Kara: Yeah, I love that. I know it’s like as much as we can, like, laser focus into what we’re building, it’s nice to get, like, somebody’s first impression, especially, like, people that have been in Systems in Session and then people who have not been in Systems in Session to, like, help point out, like, what’s obvious.

And one thing I think that you do really well in the app is, like, your welcome guide. Can you share a little bit about, like, how you put that together?

Colie: I will. I’m gonna give another shout-out to Kenzie and Joyce. So this is actually, I don’t know if it was the first thing. So again, I built this entire app and used nothing from their membership. It wasn’t until all of the ideas for what I needed the app to do for my clients were done that I was like, “Okay, now let’s go see what I paid all this money for in the membership,” right?

And that’s when I hopped in, because I’ve always been absolutely obsessed with Kenzie and her playbooks. And so I went in there and I was like, “Ooh, like I wanna make a playbook. What should I do?” And then I was like, a welcome guide. Now, the odd thing is, none of my Systems in Session clients have ever really complained that they didn’t know what to do for Systems in Session.

But I have had a lot of complaints from people who were in the Experience Edit and Email Like You Mean It before that, that, you know, I gave them access to all of the materials, and they just didn’t know where to start. And so I had, you know, created this very, very basic as fuck, to be honest, like start guide for that.

And thank God I didn’t actually have to give it to m- very many people, because then once I got into the, uh, membership, her AI club, and I was like, “Oh my God, this welcome guide’s amazing.” I built a welcome guide for Systems in Session, and then I built one specifically for the Experience Edit, and then I built one specifically for Colie on Call, and I was like, “Who else can get a welcome guide or one of these playbooks?”

Because the idea is that you gather some information from someone, or in the case of the welcome guide, like not really, you’re just giving them like a preview of what’s coming. But then in terms of the other version of the playbook, you gather information from someone, you run it through like an AI skill, and then you deliver this on-brand, beautiful, like guide to someone.

And so not only did I do three separate welcome guides, I also created a new way to deliver my audits, because people have p- been paying me to go in, fully test their client experience systems that are not my Systems in Session clients. And before they were just getting like, really feels basic now, Kara.

They were getting a Dubsado

Kara: Tech is moving fast. Yeah

Colie: Yeah. They were getting a Dubsado form that had one or two embedded videos, depending on how many I recorded of their audit, and then they were basically getting this text list. These are the things that are critical. You must fix these. These are why your systems are broken.

And then I gave them a list of things. These are things that would make your experience better, but you don’t actually need to do these immed- immediately. But again, I thought I was really doing something with that Dubsado form, embedded video. Woo-hoo. Okay, no. The latest version is so awesome. I even made it to where it is a public HTML file that is hosted on my website so that it is savable and clickable.

So when I tell them the critical things, they can actually check them off and their checks are saved. So it is more interactive. It is designed to get people to do the things that I’m telling them to do, and they can also track their progress, which is super important when it comes to updating your systems

Kara: Oh, that’s so cool. So can you now see when you deliver the audit? I can imagine one of the things that you didn’t necessarily have data on that would help you make it better is, like, what they did with the audit. So now can you track that on your

end or 

Colie: I could track that, but the last audit that I sold that I gave the brand new report to… Hi, Karen. Uh, she joined Systems in Session. So technically she didn’t check her shit off of her audit because she joined Systems in Session, which is, you know, this is something that happens often. Like, I give people a list and they’re like, “Oh my God, there is a lot to do.

Yes. Can you help me do it?” And so then they join. But otherwise, yes, I would be able to go to her link and look at what she has checked off if I’d like.

Kara: Oh, that is so cool. ‘Cause I do feel like one thing that I think is gonna be so important in 2026 moving on, and I’m sure you’re gonna agree with me, is just, like, how important personalizing every little thing is. And with old tech, that is extremely hard to do. But with new tech, we have a lot more options now

Colie: I mean, it’s funny that you’re mentioning the personalization. I feel like with the emergence of these AI tools, I mean, it’s at everybody’s fingertips at this point. I was talking to one of my Systems and Session clients earlier today, which ironically is my first custom build client. I am so excited to build this tool for her. But one of the things that we were talking about is anybody can build a tool right now. Like anybody can go grab Claude Code or Hello Stencil or Lovable or Cowork, like whatever, and basically build a tool.

But the accountability of helping someone through a process or also getting your strategy out because you know the best way to build it is what people are still going to be seeking. Because just because you can hop into a tool and code something doesn’t mean that it’s good, doesn’t mean that everything is going to work as expected, doesn’t mean that the strategy behind it is sound.

And so it, it is interesting that you’re saying personalization, but I’m like, to me, these tools are helping me provide more accountability to my clients without me being responsible for every little step. The thing about this app is I originally built it for my clients because I didn’t wanna give them custom GPTs anymore.

Originally, all I wanted to do was get rid of the custom GPTs and build it with Claude on the back end and basically put it to where people couldn’t share my shit. That was literally all I wanted from the app. But since then, I have added all of these additional layers of accountability, not only for my clients, but for me as well.

Like there’s so much in the app that my clients will never see because it’s not for them, it’s for me. And like I’ve had this idea, it, it comes from like having a repository of like my podcast information, but I’ve always wanted there to be somewhere that I had everything, and if I had a question about my client load as a whole or specific clients, that I could just go ask it.

But like in particular, I’ve always wanted to run a progress report on each one of my clients at the end of the week that would not just take into account what we did on their weekly call, but would also consider any support tickets that they submitted, any items that they wanted feedback on. And I was like, yes, it’s all in one place, but in Airtable, that meant that I was opening multiple tables, finding that particular client, and like looking through the material.

But now that it’s in an app and everything is together and I can put an AI layer on top, I can have it run a progress report, choose the client, and it will tell me everything that the client has done inside of that offer up to this point. It will even tell me the milestones that they haven’t hit yet.

So that’s for me. I mean, yes, I could give it to them and they might appreciate it, but really it’s for me so that I no longer have to try to keep up with all of my clients individually, because now I know that I’ve built a tool where I can go in and ask it a question at any given time and know exactly where my clients are

Kara: Yeah, 100%. And like I guess in a way I’m thinking like that is personalization because you’re not sending the same follow-ups to every single person, right? Like, you have… Like, it helps you do your job so much better. And one thing that I like wanna touch on, ’cause we kinda talked about how, like, literally everyone can build an app right now, and that’s amazing, but, like, it also means the experience that is behind the app is so important.

So, like, just to talk about your journey, and then you can add to it with all the details I don’t know. It’s like I remember having a conversation with you, I wanna say, like, back in February or whenever it was, about moving custom GPTs to Claude Skills, and then there was a issue of, like, sharing your IP.

But then you were still doing everything in Airtable ’cause you’re like an Airtable wizard, and then you also switched a lot of stuff to Notion to do that better, and then you also worked with X number of clients, whatever, in the meantime, and then you built an app, which is why the first draft can be so good.

You weren’t just, like, asking Claude, like, “What’s a good app to make?” You know what I mean? Like, how do I whip this up, right? It was like I really think the experience that you had that went into what it is today is such a huge part, and there’s, like, all these little things that add up to it

Colie: So I think the thing that prepared me the most for building the app was creating the workflow, uh, GPTs back in, oh my gosh, what was that? Like December of 2024. I think that’s when I first built the first custom GPT that I was using for workflows. And I remember being so proud of myself. Oh my God, I’m gonna go find those episodes ’cause I talked about it on the podcast, and I’m gonna link them here.

But that was another one of those, I literally did not sleep for like two or three days until I knocked out the first iteration of the Dubsado… I mean, I wasn’t calling her Daphne then. I don’t even know that it had a name. It wasn’t good enough to have a name. But it was when I was trying to take everything that was in my brain and put it into a custom GPT to where if we fed it the right information, which is basically all I do when I’m helping someone build their systems.

I am simply asking you all of the right questions to get the responses that I need in order to know what it is that you need for your systems. And so I went round and round and round with, “Well, okay, well, what questions? And if they don’t answer it in this way, what other follow-ups do I have?” I mean, I spent hours, which now it doesn’t even seem like it’s that bad considering how much time I’ve spent building these apps recently.

But it was like a solid three days, and I didn’t sleep, and all I did was sit in my bed and code in ChatGPT, which by the way, I mean, Vibe coding now is completely different than what I was doing to build those custom GPTs. Like it’s not even in the same ballpark. But I do feel like getting that perfected, ’cause I, I don’t really know that I ever perfected the HoneyBook version, but the Dubsado version was definitely, like, really, really good.

Mostly ’cause I had worked in Dubsado forever. But the process of building that, I think is what prepared me most to build the app. Because again, originally, I wasn’t even trying to build an app, I was just trying to build skills. And so I started with, okay, I don’t wanna start with workflows because now I’m really focused on having people plot out their client journey.

So what was I doing in that Notion planner that no one, no one used? No one submitted their work to me like I asked them to. But I guess I had just spent a lot of time building the Notion planner, where it was basically like, “These are all the things that you do with your clients. How does that translate into workflows?”

That was actually what I started with. So then I built the first iteration of the journey map planner, if you will. And I was like, “Okay, that’s cool. Now let me take my email, my email GPT, the one that helps you write emails with the three P framework, let me turn that into something.” And then I was like, “Okay, now these have to go in something, and they have to talk to each other.”

So the one thing that was really pushing me to build the app was that I wanted everything to talk to each other. I wanted somebody to build a map that had their entire client journey, and then I wanted that to give them a list of emails. My GPT was already doing that, but then they had to take that information into another GPT to actually write the emails, because of course, custom GPTs were very limited by the instructions that you could put in them.

Now, eventually you could add knowledge files, but like when I first built those GPTs, that wasn’t a thing. And so I was most concerned with making it a seamless process to map the journey, write the emails, and then design the workflows. And so I was like, “I want it to be an app. I want all of those things to happen one after another.

And I also want it to save everything that it learns about that client so that when they go to do offer number two and offer number three, they’re not starting from scratch like they would with the custom GPTs.”

Kara: That makes so, so much sense. So can you walk us through, like for people who are nosy and curious, what… When someone logs on, is mapping the first step? Like, does this, is this app given to systems and session people, or both systems and session and experience edit people? And like, what does the overlap look there?

Colie: both of them. And literally, I was just like, you know the problem when you get in a tool, nobody tells you what to do. So I kind of built it to where you’re brain dumping all of these things and then you start building. So the first thing that it asks you to do is fill out an intake form. Why? Mostly for me.

I wanna know what you were doing when you started my program so that I can measure the results at the end. Hi, Ashley Rose. I already had an intake form, but I wanna make sure that it’s telling me your tool stack, how you feel about your workflows, how much time you’re spending on each client, so that at the end of the 60 days and beyond, I actually know what my program did for you.

So they log in, they immediately get a little notification, “Please fill out your intake form.” If they don’t do it in two days, they get another prompt. If they don’t do it in two days, they get another prompt. I want my intake form. Okay. So when they’re done with that, they fill out a business profile, and that is mostly because when we get to the mapping part, I created it to where it’s not only mapping the things that you do in your CRM, you can also indicate the things that you are doing with other tools.

But if I don’t know what other tools you’re using in your business, or rather the app doesn’t, you can’t select those in the map. So intake form, business profile And then you are finally ready to tell me what offer you are going to be designing systems around. ‘Cause, you know my rule, one offer at a time.

So you fill out this, what I consider to be a very lengthy questionnaire, and the reason is, the more details that you give now, the better your map will be, the better your emails will be, and the better your workflows will be. So it asks you a lot of questions about your offer. And I don’t know that you heard this yet, Kara, but I have a new framework.

It’s called Order of Operations, and instead of it being map it, build it, test it, the first part is now check it. And so there is a whole ‘nother thing where when you tell me about your offer, I have created a scorecard, if you will, that looks at all of your answers and tells you whether or not you should proceed to start mapping the client journey.

Because if you are trying to build systems around a shitty offer that isn’t profitable, isn’t sustainable, and you don’t enjoy offering to people, why are we doing any of this work? And this came from, I went to the Rebrand Retreat. Hi, Maddie. Um, and she didn’t let me do a systems talk, which I wasn’t mad about.

She’s like, “Hey, do you wanna do an offer talk?” And you know I love breaking people’s offers down. Like I love telling you if your offer is good, if it’s bad, and how we can make it better. So I created an AI tool for that workshop where live with the 12 participants, they filled it out with their offers, they got their results, and then we talked about it live together to make their offers better.

Well, I took that and I was like, “Well, why did I give this to like retreat people and I’m not giving it to my clients?” So I built it into the app as the first step. So they put in all their offer stuff and they get a cursory… And I’m saying that because I mean, you know, an AI tool can only give you so much, but it gives you a green light, a yellow light, or a red light.

Green light, you can go and start building. I would love to see your map when it’s done. Yellow is, hey, your offer’s got a few red flags, but we can address them after your map is done. Red is, mm, I don’t know if that’s the offer that you should be selling to people right now. We need a conversation before you start mapping and before you start writing emails that you will probably have to redo in the future.

Kara: Which to be fair, I feel like when you were talking about systems in session, looking at the offer has always been the first step.

Colie: It has always been the first step. And, you 

Kara: been the first 

Colie: you only know that because you’re my client. You only know that because the first thing that I tell you is, “What’s the offer? How much do you charge? What are you doing with your clients?” Like, I ask you all those questions, but that was never formally mentioned anywhere.

And it wasn’t until– Actually, hi Zan. It wasn’t until Zan brought me an offer that she had never done with anyone, and I was like, “Yeah, we can’t build systems around this if I don’t, if I don’t know that it’s profitable and sustainable.” I mean, I made her do a lot of work. I made her do all of the offer math that I used to make my photographers do in the past so that she could prove to me that it was gonna be profitable and it was gonna be sustainable before I let her proceed to do anything else.

And so, once I did that with Zan, and Zan was like, “Oh my God, Colie,” like that was probably the most helpful part of all of it. I was like, “You know, I’m not gonna change my title to be offer strategist, but I do wanna pretend to be one on the internet.” And so this is just my way of making sure that everybody knows, no, we’re gonna look at your offer, and if it’s not good, we have to fix it first.

And granted, again, I’m not an offer strategist, but offers are really all about math. It’s about making sure that you are not spending too much time for too little money, and basically, your stress levels are something that you can’t come back from. I mean, those are the three things. And again, like doing the talk for Rebrand forced me to like write a framework for how I consider offers, and then I built the tool, and then I was like, “Oh, well, I might as well just make everybody do this.”

I mean, and you know that’s what I do. I build shit, and then I’m like, “Oh, everybody should have this. Okay, new part of Systems and Session, here you go.”

Kara: And I do think that that is such a huge part of why Systems in Session is so successful because you do have many, many frameworks. Does not surprise me that you’ve come up with another one, like with this order of operations. However, it’s like this is the framework and then there’s still that personal touch.

Like you’re not using this app to eliminate calls

Colie: I’m not using the app to eliminate me at all, even though Emily would really like me to. I mean, you know, Emily has been screaming at me the entire time that we’ve worked together, which is a little bit over a year now. She has told me over and over again, “Do you really have to do all those calls?” And I’m like, “Yes, I have to do all those calls.”

I will actually say publicly out loud, I don’t have to do all the calls anymore. I feel like I put enough of my brain into the app where I could probably go down to milestone calls. And so I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point in 2027, I did eliminate weekly calls, because I don’t know that they’re necessary.

I enjoy them. I think clients enjoy them. But I don’t actually know that they are needed at this point. But again, I am not trying to use a tool to replace me. I am trying to use a tool to get us to collaborate and work together in a more efficient manner. You still get the same end result. You still get total access to me, which you know as one of my clients.

But if I don’t have to get on a call with you to explain something, if the app has already allowed you to get to the point to where you can show it to me and we can have a conversation rather than talking about it on one call and actually reviewing it on the next call, well, then you get to use your additional time with me in some other way.

I mean, I’m not talking about reducing the time. In fact, uh, probably going to increase it. I have plans for 2027. But, um, for now, the app is not to replace me. It is simply to give you what I would consider more access to me and my thoughts when I am not actually on a call with you. I mean, one of the things that I built inside of the app using something from Her AI Club is the bot, and the bot is nowhere near where I want it to be right now.

Right now, it simply tells you where to find things inside of the app, and it gives you a little bit of my thinking and my framework. But my thought process is probably by January, it’s going to have more of my trainings, more of my thoughts, more of the things that I’ve talked about on podcasts, so that at 2:00 AM, if you have a question, and I’m not gonna answer you for, you know, at least hours, if you ask the bot, it at least helps you get to the next step without having to pause if you are someone who likes working at 2:00 AM.

Again, everybody needs to go to sleep. But I get it,

Kara: Colie to Colie, yeah.

Colie: I am one of those people.

Kara: Yeah. No, I think that that is so smart. So I have two things that I wanna, like, follow up with, and I think that’s so interesting, is, like, one of the things that I think moving forward is we just have to be incredibly discerning about, like, how we’re using tools like this. Because since we’ve talked about this before, anyone can make a tool, and AI and all the new tech that’s coming out is making it possible to implement things before you as the human learn it, right?

Like, before, I would have to take Colie’s course and then, you know, use Claude to maybe help me implement it, right? Whereas, like, a tool or something like that, like, allows me to skip this step. But if I am skipping the step of learning from Colie, I do need to make sure that I want to do what Colie is telling me.

So I think that that’s so interesting, and I think when I’m hearing you… The second thing I wanted to say is I think when I’m hearing you talk about, like, the app and everything living in one place and, like, doubling up on support is, like, one of the buzzwords I’m hearing is, like, second brain. Have a second brain.

Have your stuff here. And this app almost serves as, like, your workflow second brain. Is that right?

Colie: It does. And we’re gonna get to what else I built, but I took all of it one step further. I, you

Kara: Of course you did. ‘Cause if there is one step further to take,

Colie: and there is… And to be honest, uh, one of the things that I have planned is for the people that have worked with me inside of Systems in Session, when you take what you’ve done inside of the Systems Professor app, you’re actually gonna be able to push a button and have it built automatically for you.

And I have really

Kara: I like got chills

Colie: I know, but I’m struggling. And the reason that I’m struggling is, is that the right move? Should I actually be eliminating you having to push buttons? And so it is something that I am wrestling with right now. I don’t know if it’s going to actually make it into the final where you literally click a button and the whole thing is built.

I, I, I don’t know that that is okay. I don’t know that that’s not gonna lead to people being right back where they were if I built it for you and you didn’t understand it and you needed to make changes. I am trying to address that in the way that I am building the second app, but I really can’t make it too easy.

And then I was talking to one of my clients earlier today, and like, I honestly can’t replace myself either. I mean, ’cause I, I really could at this point. I think that I could replace myself to a certain degree, but would you have the same level of understanding that people are currently getting out of Systems in Session that I feel like is the thing that I didn’t anticipate, but it is worth, it’s worth its weight in gold?

Like, the people who all came out, and I know you and I have had this conversation ’cause you’re like, “I wouldn’t pay you 2,500 for confidence, Colie.” But also, if I eliminate the step of them building it and actually pushing the fucking buttons, is the confidence going to decrease because I can’t allow that to happen?

Like, that has been the best thing out of the Done With You that I have done, and so I kind of have to protect that at all costs, even if it means that I can’t make it as easy as I actually could and that I know that I could using these tools

Kara: That is so interesting, and that is what we need an expert that knows all the behind the scenes of it to do. And honestly, I’m like, my first impression when you were talking about that is like, well, yeah, if Colie’s like, “Help me build these systems,” like I do want that one click. But I would be hesitant for everyone to create something that gives that one click, ’cause like you need to know the logic behind it is like rock solid.

And I do think you’re right as somebody who listens to all of your case studies. One of the things that people do say over and over again is that confidence piece is huge for them in moving forward. And like you don’t wanna give them such a quick win that they don’t actually appreciate. And like not that you need appreciation, but I mean like if they don’t appreciate the complexity of the system they built because they built it so easily, are they gonna, you know, flutter off to the next thing or not worry about editing it or, you know

Colie: Yeah. One of the things that I’m currently testing is that it won’t be one click in the way of you click your map and it builds everything for you, but rather it takes you through it step by step in like a 30-minute process so that you actually have to put your eyes… It’s fully built, but you actually have to put your eyes on and enter some things so that you are forced to see all of the steps at least one time.

Do you know what I mean? Which is the same thing as having you push buttons. But I don’t know. I don’t know, I don’t know if that’s gonna work until I have somebody get in there and test it. But I mean, I am, I am extremely leery, which, I mean, you know, when people keep asking me, “Well, what are your plans for 2027?”

I’m like, “To do everything small.” Because I can’t, like, release all of the things that I have built to the, you know, out in the wild to everybody publicly and then have to walk that shit back. You know that would be my worst nightmare. So, I’m slowly but surely like, “Which of my previous clients can I bring into this, like, very secret invite-only opportunity and figure out where to go from there?”

So, that’s my plan right now.

Kara: That’s amazing. Is there anything else you wanna share today, or do you wanna tease what’s coming next, or do you wanna leave it as a cliffhanger like that? Like

Colie: I mean, I do kind of wanna leave it as a cliffhanger, but I mean, I think we- we’ll bring in Hello Stencil since, I mean, you know, you are also building something in Hello Stencil. I was very hesitant to jump into Hello Stencil ’cause we didn’t actually say this, but the Systems Professor app was built completely in Claude Code, which is kind of like me telling it everything that I want, reiterating it, going back over, you know, perfecting it over and over and over again.

But the thing about Claude Code is it just helps you build it, like it gives you the code. Claude Code itself does not host it. It’s like you built this beautiful website, but you don’t have a way to get it to the public. So after you build this thing in Claude Code, you have to go have basic… Well, I mean, I guess as you’re building in Claude Code, you are using something to hold all of the information, which for people who know that I love Airbase, Supabase is the version of the database where it’s holding all of the information from Systems Professor app.

But then you have to have something that actually puts it out there to the public. And for me, I am using Vercel, but a lot of websites that you are familiar with use Cloudflare it– or Amazon Web Services. That’s the thing that puts it publicly. So doing the first app in Claude Code was a bit of, I don’t even wanna say a learning curve, because Claude Code specifically told me everything to push, but I kind of felt like it’s telling me what to push.

I’m going to push the buttons, but I don’t really understand any of this at this point. I don’t know what SQL is. I don’t know what workers are. Like, these are things that are very foreign to me. But again, in this current like layout of the world and vibe coding, you don’t have to understand it. You just literally have to be able to go and make the connections and then your app is live.

But this next iteration of tools, I am using Hello Stencil, which I would say that it’s comparable to Lovable, except their whole goal is to get you to build a SaaS product. So software as a service, people pay you to have access to your software. And I have sworn up and down every day of the week and twice on Sunday that that would never be me.

I mean, I started making jokes probably five or six years ago where people were like, “Colie, you should just build a CRM,” and I was like, “I would never.” Like, no. Like… And of course, famous last words. So the new iteration of tools that I am building, I am going to make them available to people in some way. It doesn’t mean that I’m gonna put them publicly.

In fact, I think that my whole thing right now is going to be invite-only, um, only available to people who have previously worked with me. And so I’m not gonna spoil it, the things that I am building here, because those people are gonna get access first. I’m gonna see what works. But my new motto in life is never pay for shitty software again.

That is literally… I’m gonna put it on a T-shirt. That and,

Kara: I would buy that T-shirt. Everyone would buy that T-shirt. We’re all, like, so done with software.

Colie: Yes. And then the other part of it is ask me what shit I built today. Like, those are the two things that I would use to describe where my business is going in 2027. And so with that, I will give you one little bit of a teaser. Um,

Kara: that was already like, I’m hooked.

Colie: Well, I had already made the decision that Systems in Session was no longer going to be limited to Dubsado and HoneyBook.

I’ve actually said it publicly on the podcast, I’ve put it in some emails, I’ve said it on threads. Because I am getting exhausted convincing people that Dubsado and HoneyBook are the best things for visual artists. Like, I feel like they are, because again, in case you’ve never heard me say this, you might live under a rock.

If you sell photographs, if you sell websites, if you sell brands, you should be showing the visuals when someone pays you money. And when you are using a CRM like 17hats, no matter how good I think the automations are, I feel like you are leaving something on the table by not having a completely on-brand experience with photos, with videos, with all of the things.

But I’m exhausted, and at the end of the day, I want everybody to have a fucking amazing client experience no matter what tools you are using. And so it’s like now my goal in life, you bring your own tool, and I will help you build the best client experience that you can. Now, that being said, that was the plan, and then I started building all this shit.

So the second phase of Systems in Session is now if we can’t find what you need in a tool or if your current tool stack is not doing the job, let’s build you something custom, just like Systems Professor app. So that is the thing that I am now doing, is I am offering custom builds as part of Systems in Session.

Because it’s literally the same thing. We map your client journey. We now figure out what we want the tool to do, but instead of forcing it into the existing tool that you have, we just build you one. And I’m so happy to say that one of my existing Systems in Session clients, when I, uh, proposed this to her last week, I just looked her dead in the camera and I’m like, “Before we start, how would you feel about building something custom instead of trying to squeeze it into your current tool?”

And she was like, “Oh my God, yes.” But can I think about it? I’m like, “Sure. You know, tell me next week.” And yesterday she sent me an email, “Yeah, I’m 100% on board with custom.” And today we actually had our first call, and it’s, it’s a little weird though, ’cause I feel like with Systems in Session, if I knew the tool that you were using, it was basically, I need to know what you’re doing in your business, but then I tell you what to do in the tool.

This is a very different experience. This is you telling me not only what you do with your clients, but how you would prefer to see it, because we are no longer limited to the tool that you bring with you. And so today’s build was all about thinking about the client portal first, and then we are building all of her custom features going outward from what she wants her client portal to contain.

So, I mean, it’s, it’s very different. And I will say, you know, I’ve been doing systems for five years officially. I’ve been helping photographers with their systems for way longer than that, and, like, the way that I am currently getting to use my brain and not be restricted by what someone is allowing me to do, literally the world is my oyster.

Is that the phrase? Like, I can… If I can think it, I can build it. And so that’s where I’m, that’s what I’m doing in 2027. Anybody who wants to jump on the train, I am here for you. You should do it before I increase the prices for 2027.

Kara: Yes. And I feel like I speak for every single podcast listener when it’s like, I can’t wait to see what you do next. Sounds like only good, exciting, unlimited potential ahead

Colie: Yes. I mean, and this is all possible though by the innovations of AI. And I do wanna say, you know, for everybody out there that’s anti-AI, I get you. I understand. I mean, I spent a lot of time explaining to people. I know that I built the Systems Professor using AI, but, like, the amount of AI that you actually touch in there is very little.

And you actually have to say okay. Because when you are building your map, when you are technically writing emails, when you are building your workflows, I use deterministic models for all of it. It is all logic-based, unless you tell it that you want to use AI. And then it unlocks, like, additional features.

And in the case of the emails, it really does make it, like, so quick to write your emails. But if you don’t wanna use AI in my offer, at least, at least when you’re doing your experience edit and your systems et cetera, you don’t have to use AI if you don’t want to. AI is still optional. If you wanna do a custom build, that’s not optional.

We are using AI to build your tool. But other than that, you do still have a choice. And so I just wanna make sure that that’s clear, because right now I do feel like there’s this wall that’s going up between people who are pro-AI and anti-AI, and I just feel like there’s middle ground for all of us

Kara: I love that, and I love that you clarified that ’cause I actually didn’t know that. And I love that AI is still optional and you can just decide if it’s right for you or not

Colie: everything is labeled Kara. So it literally has this thing that says, “Uses AI credits.” And then inside of the map, again, it creates your whole map from my brain. And then you have to actually go in another layer. You actually have to go in another layer and click a button to say, “I want you to use AI.”

It is not automatic, ’cause I don’t want anybody to feel like I am trying to shove AI down your throat. Yes, AI was very helpful for me to build this tool, but you don’t actually have to use AI to do the things if you don’t want to

Kara: That’s amazing. Ah, I’m so excited, Colie

Colie: Thank you, Kara. Okay, so Kara came on here to ask me all of these questions, and I do feel like I droned on a little bit. I apologize. If you got to the end of this episode, thank you so much for sticking around. But I do also just wanna say the community of people who are building tools, I feel like is growing every day.

I mean, I’m discovering more of my people where sleep is optional at this point, and it’s like you gotta do the things while you’re motivated. And so even if you have no interest in like systems in session, if you’ve got an idea of something that you would like to build, please know that I would happily be your sounding board.

Nothing brings me more joy right now than using my brain to think of ways to do tools and what it could do, like every day. I, I just… I mean, I see tools everywhere now. Everywhere I can think of a tool to build. And so if you need a sounding board, I’m here or on Threads, come find me

Kara: Oh, I love that. Thanks for letting me interview you today

Colie: Thank you so much. All right, guys. That’s it for this episode. See you next time