Have you found your own secret to success? In today’s episode, Sabrina Roden shares how her business has grown in the last three years since she first worked with me. Listen in as she shares where her business started, what it’s turned into, and how she survived the pandemic when her business was just getting started.
The Business-First Creatives Podcast is brought to you by CRM and Dubsado expert Colie James. Join Colie each week as she discuss how to build a business that brings you joy and a paycheck! From business advice with fellow entrepreneurs to sharing automation tips and tricks, Colie and her guests are sharing industry trends and resources, along with a little bit of sarcasm.
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Sabrina Roden is a photographer who specializes in lifestyle/documentary family photography in the Charlotte area. She also does branding/commercial photography and has worked with brands such as Crayola Play Sand, Scooter’s Coffee, and me4kidz. A North Carolinian at heart, Sabrina is a mom, wife, and has a weakness for dogs, coffee, macarons, and local hard cider. Her special skills include remembering minute details about Star Wars, speed reading, and talking too fast when she’s nervous.
Here are the highlights…
[:54] Get to Know Sabrina
[4:48] When Sabrina Wanted to Work with Colie
[6:50] Simple Sales System & This Can’t Be That Hard Podcast
[7:35] Implementation from Mentees
[8:38] Business-First or Creative-First?
[11:54] Growth & Pivots Over Three Years
[12:19] Finding Commercial Shoots That Fit Her Style
[14:28] Finding Ways to Grow in Business to Prepare for Retirement
[17:45] The Secret to Success through a Pandemic
[24:20] Feeling Comfortable in Sessions
[26:00] Colie’s Shift to Coaching & Workflows
[27:36] Implementing Dubsado & Workflows
[29:55] Customizing Responses for Offers
[45:05] Reviewing the Numbers
[52:50] Offering Shoots to Grow
[54:14] Biggest Fuck Up
Connect with Colie on Instagram
Mentioned in this Episode
This Can’t Be That Hard Podcast
Connect with Sabrina
instagram.com/sabrinajillphotography
Review the Transcript:
Colie James: Hello guys, and welcome back to the podcast. Today is a real treat. First of all, guys, I am recording this at six 30 in the morning on a Sunday, just having gotten back from three days at Lake Michigan. But I listened to a different podcast where Sabrina was a guest and I texted her from the airport and was like, You must come on my podcast to discuss this.
And of course she agreed, because if you’ve ever heard me guys, I don’t really take no for an answer. But Sabrina, welcome to my podcast. How are you this morning,
Sabrina Jill: I’m good. are you?
Colie James: I am awake and trying to get caffeinated with this first latte. So what I want you to do is tell the listening audience who you are, where you’re located, what you do, and if you wanna kick off the conversation as to how we know each other, go for it.
Otherwise, I’m gonna pick it up.
Sabrina Jill: Okay, I’m Sabrina. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. I am I guess, lifestyle slash documentary family photographer.
focus is. and I guess that would directly take me into how I know who you are. would say it was four going on four years ago. was 2018.
Colie James: It actually wasn’t, girl, I had to look it up. I titled this podcast four years later and then I looked it up. Do you know that you didn’t contact me until October of 2019? So technically, I know. I can’t believe it’s only been three years. That’s why you’re here. I’m getting goosebumps. So we can talk about all your growth, but it hasn’t been four years.
It’s been three years.
Sabrina Jill: Okay, so that explains a lot. So what happened was in January of 2019, I had my second child and after I had her, I had this like, weird motivation. I’m talking like 2:00 AM I’d be feeding her at my computer. Just like hunting down what I knew I wanted in photography because I was not happy doing, everybody smile at the camera all the time.
Photos. am not a person who has a lot of style myself. I don’t like know how to dress up for the camera. I have to, I am an Old Navy shopper. If I even go out um, I’m just not, not that they’re not stylish, I just take for granted whatever they give me, they, I have. I’m a person who will wear the same t-shirt in different colors.
I just, not at even helping people like style themselves for like the big hats in the field and I just didn’t find happiness. Plus, in North Carolina there are a lot of like copperheads and so I’d be going out in the field stomping before they even got there. I just not good with spiders and snakes. So also that stress of, um, because like the seasons that most people, get photos is like fall, which here it becomes a rainy season.
plan that day of mini sessions and then it would rain and I hated the stress and anxiety, which I have a lot of, or did after a lot of therapy.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: that, of rescheduling all those days to another day and then you’d wait till the last minute. I just, it was a lot of stress of making everybody smile camera, a lot of angry parents making two year old smile, which we know they
Colie James: No.
Sabrina Jill: So back to 2019, I was like in this mode of trying to figure out exactly putting camera what I wanted cuz everybody loved the photos I took of my older daughter at the time cuz she was just like, she was used to being in front of the camera and I just had it out,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: for a long time and, Everybody loved those photos, but that would be like her eating a Popsicle with it just poopy on her face and dirty.
Colie James: are kind of photos. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: this is the best photos. Everybody liked that, but they were, but paying someone for you to look dirty is hard to do. Uh so I was like, How do I get Right?
Colie James: someone to make you look dirty. Oh my God. Sabrina, continue
Sabrina Jill: So when you invest in photos, you just see smiling at the camera, know, photos. So I was like, I found this. I so late night I would be online looking up like what I wanted to do. I just couldn’t put words to it. And I found this other photographer, I think she’s in California and she did amazing work.
It’s very artsy now she’s knows how to dress people. and it’s beautiful, but she. Take that traditional style but not have them smile at the camera.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: okay, so she found some fusion. How’d she do that? And your face as like, I was like someone who had like worked with her or something you didn’t look like all the other photographers.
And I could tell by that way that your photo was edited. And this would sound crazy, but I was like, I felt I was like, Okay, wait, this woman seems like someone would get It sounds crazy. And so I clicked on like your, I think I had like copy and pasted your name into Google there was your website.
And I was like, Oh, that is
Colie James: That’s what I want.
Sabrina Jill: look. Right? Like you people in pajamas doing giant laughs and making coffee with babies hanging off their arms. I mean like it was
Colie James: I know what picture you’re talking about,
Sabrina Jill: I was like, that is the photos. Oh, there’s my dog. That is what I wanted. and that is how I met you.
And then it said you did mentoring so that I found you like January,
Colie James: I know. Cuz then you didn’t call me until October. So what happened between January and October?
Sabrina Jill: sell, like a lot of people, they’re like too scared to invest and like, cuz it’s a lot of money to invest in like a mentorship or whatever, classes, all that kind of stuff. And, I had done like, you know, little classes here and there to like get, you know, how to use my manual on my camera, all that kind of stuff. And so I think I finally, like, I would try to, like, I, I didn’t know how to ask people to just let me come into their homes and I would try to explain it. No one would get it, you know, I’d offer free sessions. finally after months of like stalking you and just all that trying to learn from you via. Instagram, which it wasn’t like you were at much of the like, I don’t know, stalking your website. You probably saw Charlotte, North Carolina pop up all the time
Colie James: Cause you remember back then I actually did pay a lot of attention to my Google Analytics. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: gonna, a lot of things you said that we’re gonna talk about. It’s, it all comes, I, I’m gonna say that it comes back to Colie.
I took everything you said worked it into what I did. So, Yes. So finally, I guess October I contacted you, I think I even said I’ve been stalking you for like
Colie James: a long time. Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: I’m there. It was. And so from North Carolina to Colorado, we just chatted on the phone and I paid you to mentor me and it was worth every penny because my photos what I want now and that’s the difference.
Colie James: I mean, and that’s amazing. So let’s come back to why I invited you here. So you are a simple sales user. You used the simple sales pricing, you know, method. And so you were recently on the, This Can’t Be That Hard podcast, I think it was a few weeks ago, but sometimes I just like to listen to Annemie back to back.
And so yesterday at the airport, I listened to your episode, I listened to the episode with Raymond from beginning, photographer podcast. And there was just something that you said, you said, Oh, well, I mean, you know, I mentored with Colie and you know Colie, and she told me to buy your system. And so I did.
And then I was like, Aw, she gave me a little shout. And as you started to talk to Annemie and tell her all of the things that you were doing in your business that were working, I was like, Holy shit. I taught her all of that. I told her to do all of that. I don’t know why, Sabrina. It was just, I think the first time that I’d ever heard someone on a podcast basically say all the things that I told them to do and that they were actually doing them and that they were working.
Because if anybody in the listening audience is a mentor, you know that you can only do so much to get your students to be successful, to get them to do the things that you know you tell them to do. Cuz sometimes we get a lot of pushback. And so I was just listening to you and I was like, Oh my gosh. She took that idea and she slightly tweaked it and she did this and I was like, I should have her on.
Because one of the things that I think we struggle with as photographers is not only knowing how to be successful, but like how to stay in the game. Because for every one person like you, Sabrina, I’ve got at least three or four people who quit somewhere along the way because they just weren’t able to get their business the way that they wanted their business to be.
And so I’m very happy to hear that you are happy with what your photos look like now and all of that good jazz, but that’s what we’re gonna talk about right now
Sabrina Jill: asked, uh, people you interviewed before are, do you see yourself as a creative first or an entrepreneur first? I think, I haven’t listened to all of them, but I think a lot of people say they used to see themselves more creative and now more entrepreneur.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: least I know one person definitely did that. I still see myself as a creative first because I am not probably the person you’d normally have an interview on here.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: business, I don’t wanna be a business person. My husband’s a numbers person. I’m just, I hate all of that part. But actually really liked that part,
Colie James: I love that part.
Sabrina Jill: to, Yeah.
And so when you bought podcast, but when I caught onto that from listening to you and literally from the dubsado course, like, you just, you’ve handheld it and I’m like, Oh, well if she does this for the business part, I’m just gonna listen, so I don’t to do it. All I do is take what you do, it into me.
And like, literally like, it’s changed the trajectory of the business side for me because I really do see myself, I like the creative part. I don’t like, like when you tell me in an email, we were talking about numbers. I’m like, Oh God, numbers. Yeah. I, I just don’t like numbers. I literally will do things with pencil and paper still.
So
Colie James: I mean, I get it. But I think what is unique about you, Sabrina, is that I told you that you needed to raise your prices and you actually did it like you didn’t give me pushback. You didn’t tell me, Well, who’s gonna pay that? You just said, Okay. And when I told you to buy simple sales, you just said, Okay, and you bought it, and now you are really killing it with simple sales.
But like, just to put it out there, again, most people don’t do that. I get a lot of pushback. Like eventually everyone raises their prices, they raise their price or they stop being in business because there’s only, like you say, you don’t like the numbers, your husband is a numbers person. But if you told your husband how much money you made back in 2019 and you told him that you wanted this to be your salary, I am 100% sure that your husband would say that math does not make sense,
There is no way that you will get there. Using those numbers, like you can’t twist and bend numbers at your will. They either make sense or they don’t. If you don’t like, you know how much money you’re making, you either have to raise your prices or you have to raise your volume. It is not, you know, it’s not rocket science, , as I sometimes say, but then people are like, Isn’t your husband a rocket scientist?
I’m like, No, he’s a biochemist. And that’s different, but we’ll move on for that. But when I heard you say those things on the podcast, I was just like, Okay, no, I have to talk to Sabrina. Also, what we’re going to pivot into now is, so you came to me because you wanted to move away from a more traditional portrait business, which is what we’ll call it since that’s what everybody else calls it.
We call it the sucky photography . And you wanted to move into like natural photography. Cause I know you felt a little weird saying, Well, I’m a lifestyle slash documentary photography. I mean, basically we are in home photographers, even if we’re photographing you outside in your backyard or somewhere, we take the same principles from inside your home and just apply them outside.
But then on Honoree’s podcast, you said, Well, and now I’ve pivoted into brand and commercial photography. And I was like, Hold. Because I remember when you emailed me and you were like, Okay, Cole, so I’ve got this. I’ve got this brand slash commercial job. I don’t know how much to charge. I don’t know what to do with them.
Tell me what to do. So is that when you made the pivot or did you get a few more clients in order to do that?
Sabrina Jill: Okay the, one of the big branding jobs I got happened to fall in line with me, and it be some kind of magic. was, can I say the brand?
Colie James: Uhhuh, Go ahead.
Sabrina Jill: Crayola playsand, and it’s literally, it was photographing kids playing and in the sand and it was all day.
And, they needed a photographer. And I just said, Okay, this one is for me, like it’s kids playing. And I love color in my photos, it was just perfect. so I just put myself out there and, I saw they needed someone. I reached out and it was like magic. We all just connected really well. So that was like my first intro to doing commercial and branding, so didn’t like come too far off from what I do. But then they needed head shots for their, and they’re not cr it’s like a, it’s like another brand
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: the place in. And so they needed head shots their office. And I’m like, Sure. Because at this point I’m like, Yeah, like I know these people, I feel more comfortable. And I was able to set it up in natural light in their offices and it looks amazing.
And so I did it there. And so then I was like, I think, I wanna do more of this,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: work with another fellow Charlotte photographer, and I just rented a studio. But it’s not like a regular one. It looks like at home, but also not. And I did headshot there for people, so I’m keeping it brand for what I do. But having fun with it also and giving people nice head shots. And like, people have always asked me like one word together, like, can I get a headshot real quick? And I know a lot of photographers are like, No, charge ’em extra. But I’m like, if it’s practice for me, I’m not opposed
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: you know, working my way around, figuring it out.
I recently, for the first time, Started using like, on camera flash or not on, you know, I know off camera flash. I know.
Colie James: Oh wow.
Sabrina Jill: amazing. I’m usually like, no, I like the,
Colie James: Natural light.
Sabrina Jill: And I’m not like a light chaser, you know, like if it’s shadows, I’m like, Great. Like you told
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: shooting shadow, pump it up.
Like, it’s not like my, not even be the photo they put on their wall, but it’s one they’ll have. so I got into branding, photography and stuff, doing it way that and they happen to like it. I also you had said to me one time, as we get older, we’re not always gonna be on our hands and
Colie James: Yeah.
Sabrina Jill: kids.
And that has stuck in my head that I’m like, All right, know, I’m in late thirties now. I I have worked with a, um, this is kind of like a branding practice a couple, I think it was four years ago now, I actually landed a job with a really amazing daycare in, up in, in the city of Charlotte.
And that kind of helped me also like ready for, and I don’t, I play with them. kid comes out, play a little bit, make fart noises. It’s outside. It’s fun And we do like really, I mean I’ve gotten amazing clients from that, um, as well cuz they’ll love those like natural daycare photos. So that’s literally how I got into branding.
And I always have in the back of your head, when you tell me, and I’ve said it to many people, like one day I am not gonna be able to or I’m
Colie James: one day.
Sabrina Jill: getting off the ground and chase kids in their house.
Colie James: And I think that, cuz you know that that interview actually got a lot of, Yeah. Anyways, that got a lot of talking in Facebook groups. How I said that I was getting too old and I was outgrowing my clients, which for me it’s totally true. I mean, I’m older than you, I’m 43 and like my knees are telling me that I don’t have many, very many more years to do this.
But I also don’t think that like, cuz I think some of the people that were like, well that’s, you know, that’s an odd comment, don’t do in-home photography cuz I don’t think that they realize how much we get up and down and play with the children and chase them around the house. I mean, I am extremely sweaty and exhausted after I leave every single person’s house.
Even if I’ve only been there for two hours, I am exhausted. I come home, I take a shower and I basically fall into my bed. I mean, that’s my current routine. Um,
Sabrina Jill: I was gonna say two things about that is I think you actually told me that one on one when I was mentoring with you. Like it stuck that long
Colie James: I tell lots of people because as photographers, I don’t think that we know that. I mean, and this is for any photographer. This is a wedding photographer, a family photographer. Like, I don’t see you doing this in your sixties. Maybe you do, but I don’t, and I want everyone to have a plan for what they’re going to do to continue to make money.
Now, if you tell me that you’re gonna do it until you retire and you’ve actually been putting away the money to be able to retire at 50, 55, whatever that golden number is for you, bravo. But everyone should be thinking of the longevity of whatever creative, you know, offer services they currently have to know whether or not you will still be able to do this until you retire.
Sabrina Jill: Mm-hmm. . Yep. That’s stuck in my head. And yeah, especially cuz like you said, when you’re in a home session, like you don’t even have enough time to change your setting. Sometimes
Colie James: Nope.
Sabrina Jill: do get like a crazy photo sometimes I just turn those into weird little artsy things. Um, yeah. Cause you just don’t have enough time. but after I leave, like every of those sessions, it’s like therapy to me. I love it.
Colie James: I know. So other than, you know, let me not put words in your mouth, Sabrina. Why do you think that three years later you are still in business and actually thriving, you know, after a pandemic? Like what do you think your secret was?
Sabrina Jill: oh man, I’m thinking of going in homes
Colie James: I know . That’s why I was really surprised when I looked it up and I realized that we actually finished our mentorship only a month and a half before the pandemic started. I actually did not remember it that way. I had to go look at literally when you paid me in Dubsado and when I sent you your final PDF and we scheduled our final call cuz of course all of that is in Dubsado, but when I saw that it was January, I was like, holy shit.
How did she survive the pandemic? Just having discovered like her passion and you know, just having done these mentorships and then, then the pandemic hit. And I mean, I know from talking to you that you were doing the same thing. I was. I mean, it was a very scary time to think about going into people’s houses.
And I do know that you did porch portraits. I can’t remember what else you did, but, so just in general, like why do you think that three years later you have, you know, in essence tripled your business? You have, you know, Continued to work with in-homes and pivoted to like brand and commercial photography.
Like, what’s your secret, Sabrina? Like, how are you still here?
Sabrina Jill: Oh my gosh. I feel like there’s a lot of ingredients right there.
I would say one was listening you, um, I wasn’t gonna, I was real at first. I was like, Oh gosh, I’m not gonna be able to do what I wanna do. Literally tagline on my website before pandemic hit was, Let’s stay Home And I was like, Oh god.
People are,
Colie James: I mean, so you’re, you’re the reason that we had a pandemic. Okay. Good to know.
I mean, you know, I made that video that, you know, I was sitting at home not doing anything, so I took all that footage from like my clients and I legitimately made what could be considered a PSA to tell people, Stay your ass at home. Like it said, let’s, you know, stay at home like the whole, Yeah. Anyways.
Sabrina Jill: Oh my gosh. So I was very nervous. And I did, had to get like a special, um like permission from like the, the local government to even like shoot outside. I think it was a couple months later cause we were down for at least two to three months. Um, but K and 95 masks,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: So I did do like some senior sessions outside and I did fan when I would do backyard more photos,
That kind of thing.
So, stayed focused on what I wanted cuz I knew it wasn’t gonna be forever.
just had to keep believing it’s not gonna be forever. So I just stayed focused on what I wanted. So I would just really push, like, let’s just go play in your backyard. Like, that’s okay. That just, I literally, I don’t, I mean, I just stayed focused also, being completely honest with people, about how I was about covid.
Like I stayed very strict about it. I was a masker, um vaccinated. I was very honest about it and I reached people who
Colie James: We’re the same. Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: appreciated. I even just had a client a week ago who said they went back in my Instagram and loved how vulnerable and honest I was about it. and so, I mean, I just masked up in her ask cuz she had a little kid and we don’t wanna put her at risk.
I have older kids in school,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: so, I have no issue with that. They’re apologize and I have no issue with you. Do not have to apologize for what you need for your family. So
Colie James: I mean, so are you still wearing a mask now? Because I am.
Sabrina Jill: Yeah. Well, it’s definitely if I go inside, I’ll ask also, I mean, I’m like, at this point I’m like, my whole vaccination card is filled and I know I could still get it and I’m I’m one of those weird people that still hasn’t got it. Knock on wood. Probably the next time people are like, Oh no, she got it.
Colie James: I mean, Sabrina, do you want me to tell you now how I got Covid from one of my clients, even though I had on a k n 95 mask? I mean, I could tell you that. I mean, it’s, it’s kind of funny. I mean, it, it is gonna happen. I was legitimately so shocked when I got covid, cuz even after those clients said, I’m so sorry to tell you, we tested positive for Covid.
I was like, I had a N 95 mask. I’m, I’m fine. And by the end of the week I was positive. And then Chloe was positive and then James was positive. And then I had to cancel my trip to Guam. So, I mean, mine had like a really shitty ending, but it’s fine. I mean now I’m like, we’ve all had covid, whatever, but I am still wearing masks in people’s houses.
And it’s not really for myself at this point. It is still that I wanna make sure that I am doing everything to protect my clients. Because at the height of the pandemic, I was only going into people’s houses one time per week. Like one, one client per weekend. I would test the next week to make sure that I didn’t have it before I went into someone else’s house.
And like now I’m back to doing, you know, sometimes 2, 3, 2, 3 in-home sessions on the same weekend. So I’m just wearing a mask because I would hate to catch it at one person’s house and give it to the other person. So it’s really not so much for us anymore. It’s like I still feel the need to protect my clients as much as I can because it is very intimate when we’re in their house.
I mean, I’m like four inches from your kids’ face photographing them. So yeah.
Sabrina Jill: yeah. I, but I am, I’m like, just so. I’m just honest, I am vulnerable. I, I’m not gonna lie, I used to have a lot of anxiety. I mean, it took me so long to even reach out to you as if like, I guess imposter syndrome type of thing, but, I just believe in being really honest. Like my husband even tells me sometimes I have to calm down on honesty with people because
Colie James: Oh,
Sabrina Jill: I don’t know.
I just, guess that whole, you can’t handle the truth. Um, I just believe in being really honest as I can.
Colie James: Sabrina, can you quote the whole A few Good Men movie? Cuz listen, I just realized there’s another reason why I love you. Like when you were talking before and you were talking about, you know, smile at the camera. I hated it. I mean, I’m like nodding my head yes, yes, yes. This is why you’re like the perfect student for me.
And when you just said that line from a few Good Men, I have to admit, like I wanted to jump through the screen and give you a kiss. I used to be able to quote that movie from beginning to end. Every single person’s part.
Sabrina Jill: Uh, so yes, am just, was completely vulnerable and honest with everybody. I still am, and the way I reached out to my clients is just so honest with everybody. I have, I don’t know, I’m, I just put myself out there. I follow the business rules with the Dubsado plan you gave, or, you know, I paid for,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: and Annemie. I just, you know, I mean there’s little tweaks I’ve done here and there because it’s just, you know, different things work for different
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: Yep. So honesty telling people, and it’s funny, so a client I had last weekend, it was one of those like dream clients or everything, just like they were like little themselves. was really nervous about going into it and I kept saying like, I promise you am just having fun with you in your house, probably talking to you more than anything to.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: nervous. And I didn’t even know she was nervous. finally when the day she was like, this was like so much fun.
Even her husband who’s like a, accountant type of, you know, mind, he still, I felt he had a creative soul also. Um, but they were like, Wow, we were so nervous. And that was so easy. I was with them for three and a half hours,
Colie James: Oh, Sabrina. That, I mean, that’s my, that’s normal for me, but for you, that’s a really long time.
Sabrina Jill: it. I usually last about two, two and a half hours, but this one in, they had like a little kid.
So you just, you know, you have to give and take and, um, a lot of people, when I try to explain like, I could be with you for hours, like I know a lot of people are like, Oh God, that’s intimidating. But I’m not like photographing the
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: we’re just talking and getting to know each other and so many people are always like, Oh my God, that was like therapy
Colie James: I was just gonna say like many times when I leave houses, the husbands are like, Listen, whenever she wants to have you back, you were, I will pay you are, you are welcome in my house anytime. And that’s like not, that’s not rare. That’s completely normal response from like everyone in the house. But it was funny, I don’t think that I put two and two together until I talked to you yesterday while I was at the airport.
And then I was looking up when you actually hired me. I think that you, you in in particular were not really the impetus for the Dubsado like course, but like people like you were in general. Because I feel like when people were coming to me for mentoring and like 20 17, 20 18, 20 19, I felt like everyone was still coming to me for creative.
And then like they weren’t continuing and I had no control over what they were doing on the business side. I mean, like I told you, I tell people to raise their prices all the time and people like kind of let it go in one ear and out the other. Like they don’t do what I tell them to do. And so I think what I finally realized was, you know, I feel like people don’t need the creative for me as much anymore, but they really do need me to tell them what to do with their business.
And I used to, you know, give people advice on pricing all the time. And then Annemie came out with her class and I was like, Oh, I don’t have to do that anymore. I can just send them, Hey, you should use simple sales. And like basically walk away. Because she was doing like the selling for me, she was telling people, you know, your math doesn’t make sense.
This is how much you need to charge if you want this much money. And so it kind of took the pressure off of me and I was like, Okay. So if I have like this partner in crime now that I can just be like, Listen, listen to her. She will make you profitable. I was like, What else can I do to make sure that photographers are in it for the long, you know, for the long haul?
And I was like, everybody needs systems and nobody gets them. So I mean basically that’s how the Dubsado course was born. I was like, I need a way to make sure that photographers survive and that they don’t continue to sell three and $400 sessions and never become profitable. And after, you know, two or three years, they just close their business because they can’t see a way to make it work.
So yeah,
Sabrina Jill: I was gonna say, so like, I’m trying to, like, put words of this. Um, especially cause like so many people, like in this like private face group, you and I are part of that talks about all the simple sales and everything for people who had it. Like so many people. We’ll talk about like as soon as they see, say Dubsado, you know, I’ll see your name pop up cuz so many people tag you and all that.
And I’m like, well, I don’t even have to tag her. they’ll say, like, they’ll mention Dubsado and I don’t know how to put into words. So if you were a person listening who was like, I’m all about photography and a creative, you know, that’s the part I need.
I’m with you. Like, uh, Dubsado, I mean, I don’t know any other crm. I was winging it back in the day. Um I was using what was a jot form to send out,
Colie James: Oh,
Sabrina Jill: know, forms and all that kind of stuff. And, I just was winking it. I don’t know, I guess I sent like PayPal invoices of thing and it just was so sporadic.
But with your course, so this is here Plug, it organized, I mean, I I, I, look. More back in the day. Now I believe I’m as professional
Colie James: you are a professional Sabrina. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: I now, I believe it, now I know it, but back I would be like, Oh my God, I look way more professional than I probably am. literally like from one with just people reaching out, sending the information, the way you send it into Thea, everything is so pretty. even the emails themselves with just a button,
Colie James: Make them see so much prettier. Yes. And it’s a button in your brand color. Absolutely.
Sabrina Jill: And then like even like if they don’t like, um, answer you right away, you had it set up with those emails that I just, you know, adjusted slightly to my like voice and sent it out. I mean, I had someone, I sent the magic email twice this past and then I got like, Oh my gosh, no, no, no.
Like, like let’s do this. And I’m like, Okay, great. I’ll email you Sunday. But, Like, I’ll email you a full response Sunday. I
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: was there. But it, it just makes you look like you have, I mean it does, you have put It doesn’t make you look it, you
Colie James: You actually are put together. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: see it.
It is, um, it is definitely like, I always feel like little sense of pride every time I like that and you know, everything is so by step. It’s just so pretty.
Colie James: I mean, so Sabrina, let’s take a step back because one of the things that you said on that this can’t be that hard podcast was that you totally took like what I tell people, because I had a conversation with Shamar who’s one of my students, and she said her favorite part of the course, like the best thing that she walked away from was how I emphasized that everyone should take five minutes to customize your response when you’re making the offer so that they can see themselves in the photo.
Sabrina Jill: Yes,
Colie James: then when I was listening to you on, I did. I did. But then when I heard your response on Annemie’s podcast, I was like, Wait, is she doing it to the proposal or is she doing it to the website? And I was just like, Yeah. So, but like, So that means when you send the proposal, is the proposal also customized or is the proposal just have the same photos that everybody gets?
Sabrina Jill: photos. I’ll update eight. Update those with like newer photos and stuff they like.
Colie James: Okay.
Sabrina Jill: once I send the proposal, they’ve already said yes.
Colie James: Okay.
Sabrina Jill: so then they can see all the other So for anybody who doesn’t know, what happens is, is when someone reaches out to me, I don’t get on the phone with them. I tend to like stutter and not sound as professional as I like looking on Dubsado, I don’t
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: put together. I hop on. It’ll be like, so say like I get a, uh, an inquiry. I will look their name up on Facebook and see what their family looks like. If they don’t mention like who all is in their family, I will do as much snooping as I can to get to know that they’re a real person. Cuz you just never know. We do go in people’s homes. know, it’ll, you know, Google gives you everything in Facebook, so not everything,
I just look real quick to see like if they have two kids, say it’s two little girls, you know, I will, I have a website sales page that’s like a hidden page and I just have a couple of photos on it and I switch up those photos to allow the client to see themselves in the photos.
I mean, they don’t realize it, they, they don’t realize that like, Oh, I do that
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: just, I want them to see themselves in the photos. Cause it’s the hardest thing to sell you in a photo.
I mean, I know this like firsthand, cuz I will see photos, beautiful photos of women in fields with those dresses.
And I do not like one of those women, like, you
Colie James: Not at all.
Sabrina Jill: because I can’t do it. I can’t, I’m not a good actor. I won’t be able to pretend I’m just not that person. so, but you sold me your photos. Even I wanted like, I want, you know, people to come to my house to take photos of me. So, um, so yeah, so I go on a hidden sales page.
I quickly change those photos I pull that up and I make a, like, and you know, my little face is on there and I have the screen up and I just talk them through the sales page. I reach out to them, each person individually.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: gets home work and I’ve been outside in 90 degree heat with a red face and my hair’s all a mess, I will still hop on and show face because I mean, that’s my business.
I want you to feel comfortable with being
Colie James: Yes.
Sabrina Jill: Right. Like, I just want you to be yourself in front of my camera. Even if we do more traditional, I will still do a traditional outside photo. I am not opposed, you know,
Colie James: see, no. Mm-hmm. See, you’re better than me.
Sabrina Jill: um, but see I don’t really do those field ones or anything.
I’m more like up in the city of Charlotte, we have really cool, funky spaces
be themselves and I’ll still get them smiling at the camera, but it’s not as much posed. It’s just kind of. Uptown, I like all the art scenes up there. Any excuse to get up there. so yeah, so I’m, Yeah, you rarely.
I li I actually just went on like a, I found this like beach in, on a lake in North Carolina and it was awesome. I was all
Colie James: Nice.
Sabrina Jill: clients I’d worked with lots before, so doing traditional photos are easier
Colie James: It’s so much easier when you already know them and I tell my clients that all the time. No, if you want like traditional photos in front of the flat Irons, I will take them for you. It will be a 30 minute session, not three hours. We will go, we will get the photos and we will be done. Like if you want me to do that for you every other year, every two years, I’m happy to do that.
I just refuse to do that for every single one of your sessions. Cuz if you want that, there are plenty of other people in Colorado that will be happy to take those photos for you. I am not one of them.
Sabrina Jill: I am not scared to give someone else’s name out.
Colie James: Yeah.
Sabrina Jill: If I don’t feel like it’s a good fit, I will definitely give them names. For photographers that are good
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: yeah, a hundred percent I send them a video and like I said, it’s to. Individual person because I want to know I’m there for them. I’m not gonna stop saying the word therapy only because I’ve started focusing on
because I’m gonna start using that in the next year to, uh, reach out to people.
And I don’t mean photographers, I mean like regular people
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: into a creative mindset sometimes to help themselves. And I feel like sometimes my photo sessions like open people up.
Colie James: They do?
Sabrina Jill: one day next year I’ll talk to you about this on your podcast
Colie James: Yes. That would be awesome.
Sabrina Jill: on having a bigger thing about it. because I just it really important. So, um, I, it’s just after so many sessions people have told me like, therapy, therapy, therapy and I’m like, this is great. So yeah, so I like to reach out to the individual person cuz like the human, that one human matters to me and they found me for a reason.
so I like visual aids myself, so I make a video. I also say like f. Pause it here, you know, like, share this with your partner. And I’ve literally went to sessions where, it’s usually husbands, they’ll say like, Oh, I didn’t, at that point you were more expensive, but you, I, your video killed it. And I literally looked a hot mess in
Colie James: Yeah, I mean, but like we show up at people’s houses, like did you see that real recently? There was one on Instagram where someone was like, Which, how do you show up to your sessions? And it was like, you know, really put together, like there were all these things and I actually wrote the person that did it, and I was like, Yeah, but you didn’t do me, which is I show up in Hannah Anderson rainbow pajamas.
Like, you didn’t have that as an option. Do you want me to send you video? Do you want me to give you some rainbow pajamas? I’m like, because I know that a lot of the, you know, in-home photographers that I’ve mentored or that just, you know, I know we all show up in yoga pants because we spend 70% of the session on the floor rolling around doing something with toddlers.
So, I mean, you know, Yeah, I mean, I, I, I completely know that you show up on these videos just as you are because I mean, I do the same thing.
Sabrina Jill: And I’m, and it’s funny cuz like I show up for myself, for my clients there, but like, we, that’s a whole nother conversation. But like social media, I barely show my face or
Colie James: Hm
Sabrina Jill: so I have like this weird, humble thing,
Colie James: mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: no, it wants to see my face. Um, I should show up more often.
Colie James: you’re definitely the opposite of me. When people, I’m well, and people are like, Yeah, but you’re just an extrovert. And I’m like, You do realize that’s not why I put myself on social media. I was like, I am a loud black woman and I have to make sure that each and every person that hires me knows that a loud black woman is going to show up in their house.
I was like, It is. It would be uncomfortable if I showed up for your house for a three hour session, or a, heaven forbid, one of my full day in the lifes. If I showed up at your house and you were like, Well, this was not what I was expecting. It would be awkward and there’s no way for you to get rid of me because we have a three hour session scheduled.
So, I mean, it’s just very important that I put myself out there as much as I possibly can so that there is no confusion as to who shows up to your house to photograph your family.
Sabrina Jill: I guess, um, they would know they’re getting a very quiet woman.
Colie James: Yeah. And that’s okay. I bet you you would, I bet you you would attract like people, so like lots of very quiet introverts would feel like, Oh, she’s not gonna come in our house and like force me to smile and force me to do all these things. I really do think it would work in your favor. Just saying
Sabrina Jill: does. being very quiet. They’re like, Who is coming? I should show up more.
Colie James: Well, I mean, but I also think that your video sales letter is like awesome. I do wanna say something though, because I’m gonna have a podcast soon where I’m talking. , this is a hint everyone. The three important acts that your potential clients or your clients do for you. The first one is the act of reaching out and that deserves, you know, an appropriate thank you from you as the service provider when they actually book you and pay you money.
And then the third one is when they talk about you and or refer you to their friends. Like, those are the three big acts. And every time one of your potential clients or clients does that for you, you should be thanking them in a very personalized way. And so I think your video sales letter is a perfect response to the first one because, you know, they’re putting themselves out there by reaching out to you every little piece of information that they give you inside of the intake form.
You know, the inquiry form is, it should be valued and it should be, you know, you should be thanking them for taking the time to do that. So I think your video sales letter does a great job. But then I also feel like a lot of photographers or service providers in general, like when someone pays us money, we’re just like, Okay, thank you.
I appreciate that. But like, we don’t, like, that’s the end of like the thank you. Like you don’t go a little bit further and like personalize it. You know, tell them that you’re, you know, you’re excited to, you know, photograph their family. Like there should be a next step where it doesn’t seem like you’re giving them the same, Thank you for paying money that you give to everybody.
And I’m not saying that everyone has to buy welcome gifts. It’s definitely not what I’m saying, but like, I think that we should all just consider. How we respond to each act that our client does. And so the more personalization that you can put into each of those responses, the more likely it is that you’re going to get the next act.
So in other words, if you put in a lot of time and effort, and by time and effort guys, like Sabrina said, it takes her like six minutes to make these videos. I’m not talking about hours. Like if you put in the time when they inquire, it is more likely that they are actually going to pay you and book you.
And then depending on your response then, and then how you do the actual session, it is more likely that they are going to get to the third one, which is to tell everyone how amazing it was and that they should hire you too.
Sabrina Jill: I have had a lot more referrals, especially this year
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: in years past, and I
Colie James: I’m telling you, I think your sales, I think your videos have a lot to do with it.
Sabrina Jill: mean, definitely. I, I love making sounds so funny for someone who does not like to show up on face, I mean, I have ’em down to like three minutes. Um sometimes there’ll be people who write these like, amazing, like why they found my, and those people. I make
Colie James: and you should respond in light kind. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: I’m like, I’ll even say like, Oh my God, just fast forward this if you don’t wanna hear me, Dr. About like your my appreciation . Yeah. I appreciate people who, um, like there’ll be people like I’ve spent, like, every day I get on the computer, I come back to your website. I’m like, Oh my gosh. Like, that’s awesome.
I know that feeling. Like
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: know that feeling myself. I’ve hired certain, like a photographer in Florida one time to do our Disney photos and it was the, still, I, to this day, I tell everybody they’re my favorite photos.
doesn’t do photography anymore, but
Colie James: Aw.
Sabrina Jill: I know she had to take a step away for a little bit,
Colie James: I mean, I, I could just put myself out there as your new Disney photographer. Also, not to be funny, but like Casey is in Florida and she has passes and she lives right by the park. So if you are not familiar with Casey, I will introduce you. She is one of my students. So you know what you’re getting. Um, it’s funny.
Yeah, I do every once in a while have people that contact me for Disneyland sessions. They’re like, Cool, you know, Do you actually live in California? No, I don’t. But if you want a Disneyland session, I will definitely fly out there. I do have a path, like, when are we doing this? ? I mean, no one has actually taken me up on it yet.
I’ve been contacted by three different people. Two of them didn’t work out for dates. Like I already had sessions in Denver that, or I was traveling, that I couldn’t, and then the last person, I could have done it, but she was having trouble like justifying the cost. To her partner because of what it was actually costing to go to Disneyland.
I mean, totally understood, but I mean, like three strikes. And I still don’t have someone who has paid me to take photos at Disney, which I would personally love to do. I’ve had two different sessions at Disneyland with two different photographers, and yes, both of them were amazing. Oh, I’m like, those photos are behind me.
Sabrina Jill: right there.
Colie James: I mean, favorite. Um, but yeah, I mean, it, it, we have the same anxiety when we are looking for family photographers for our own families. 100%
Sabrina Jill: Yeah. Except my anxiety still comes from being in front of the camera. I’m not gonna lie. That’s part of, that whole therapeutic photography is I need to be as brave as I tell my clients
Colie James: to be mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: the hard part is, I guess believing someone when they say relax, like, can they get you to actually relax?
And that’s the part that I try to really like convey to people. Like it’s okay. And so I won’t lie, like I guess I would trust myself behind the camera. Now, there is another Charlotte photographer that is a student of yours that I will be having photograph me and I’ve worked with her.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: so yes, I, I look forward to, and I’m gonna use her in the winter. So, To let her, like, I also feel like if you’re a photographer, don’t take up another photographer’s time during crazy, like show that they can do like awesome seasons, Right.
Colie James: Yes. Aren’t you so kind?
Yes.
Sabrina Jill: Shoot, it’s freezing.
Colie James: I mean, I love January. Like I, I actually went to State College one time. This is a whole nother, like I lost some of their footage with Tay guys. I mean, this is me being vulnerable. Did a full day in the life, got home, sent them all of their photos, and it took me weeks to realize the first three hours of their day, I had no, I had no, no video footage.
I still to this day don’t know what happened. Like there was not one bit of video that entire time for the first three hours.
Sabrina Jill: awful
Colie James: So I ended up having to, uh, I flew back out there. She was like, You don’t have to do that. I’m like, No, I really have to do that. So I flew back out there, in January and it happened to snow.
So I got the most amazing session of them outside in their backyard, sledding down the hill, like it was, It’s still one of my favorite sessions. But yes, January can be awesome for photos, even if you live somewhere where it’s cold, like Colorado.
Sabrina Jill: we rarely get snow.
Colie James: I, you know, it just happened to, like, I’ve only had snow appear during sessions three times, one time in state College and then two other times where we just happen to have snow. Um, but it’s, you know, it’s not, it’s. Totally common here anyways. I mean like sometimes when it snows, I think to myself, I should just send out a mass email to all of my clients.
Is anybody doing snowball fights today? I will just come to your house and photograph it , because I mean, you know, those are amazing moments to photograph.
Sabrina Jill: Yeah. I wish to,
Colie James: So Sabrina, we are gonna wrap this up. I’m gonna ask you two different questions. Number one, we didn’t actually get to the numbers part. So here’s what I want you to do.
I just want you to tell me, thinking about what you were charging in 2019 and thinking about what you were charging now, like what was your session fee? Cuz you were all inclusive back then. Now you’re doing simple sales. So what was your all inclusive fee in 2019 versus now? What your msa, and for everybody who’s not in simple sales, that is minimum sales average.
It’s a big thing that Annemie has you calculate in order to make sure that you’re gonna be profitable. But like what has been the difference between what you are charging in 2019 and what you’re charging now?
Sabrina Jill: All right. I’ll be completely honest and vulnerable. So for any photographer who’s like, Ew numbers, this is for you. I’m not gonna be as structured as other people on your show.
Colie James: That’s all right.
Sabrina Jill: right? So, but back before I started really narrowing things down, I was literally and miss with just naming a price
Colie James: Oh my God.
Sabrina Jill: Yeah.
Right, Because I wanted to like get the
Colie James: You wanted everyone to say yes. Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: And that was like a huge mistake. like, I’m gonna say, you know, when you, when I first started it, I don’t even remember what year that is anymore. I was one of those people that, this is why I try not to get angry at people about it or frustrated.
Like it would be like a hundred dollars, $75. Nothing for like outside very angry portraits. Um, um, not really like knowing what I was doing, but knowing what I was doing. mean, I was hit and miss. It was like, some people, I would say more and I’d be like, Oh my gosh, why did I say that? It was all
Colie James: Aww.
Sabrina Jill: had no idea what I was doing. It was a mess. And I know someone out there is gonna hear this one day and be like, That’s me. I’m a mess.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: you’re not alone. So many of us, if not 98% of us start out like that. I, I was just a mess. Like I didn’t have. And then I think eventually when I had some kind of idea, I, It’s funny saying this number sounds nuts.
Um, because I thought it was so much
Colie James: so much money.
Sabrina Jill: I, and I, for, for thinking of the person I was back then, that probably was a lot of money just because I was everywhere scatterbrained and narrowed down was probably like $225
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: session to push what I wanted but not quite
Colie James: getting there.
Sabrina Jill: And so now you just mentioned those big yellow. don’t really know any of that stuff. I’ll be honest with you. I know it, but I don’t know it. I mean, I did it so long ago and
Colie James: So I just want you to tell me what your session fee plus your lowest collection is. That’s technically your MSA
Sabrina Jill: Um, my session fee is two 50. So it’s a little more than what it
Colie James: a little more than what you were charging for all inclusive. Good job, Sabrina
Sabrina Jill: and then my lowest session fee, think it’s like $500.
You
Colie James: Okay,
Sabrina Jill: I don’t like say it off the top of my head that I know it.
Colie James: so we’re talking about seven 50. So you went from 2 25 to a minimum now of seven 50. Excellent.
Sabrina Jill: Yes. And like, cuz I want to, I live in an area that is like, so, eclectic. So like, there’s wealthy people in Charlotte and then there’s not so wealthy people in Charlotte, and then there’s super artsy people in Charlotte, and then there’s doctors and stuff who don’t, you know, have that same kind of mentality. Some do, I’m just generalizing. So what, it’s kind of all over the place, so you don’t, I try to like still make it like I try to make the value as to what some people might be able to afford and not able to afford.
Colie James: Well, I’m gonna stop you there cuz you know it should be based on your numbers, but I do know that you know the value of being profitable. So I do know that you are still making whatever it is that your salary needs to be, which is really all I care about at the end of the day. And plus when it comes to simple sales like that, seven 50 is just your minimum of what you need to make.
If you were gonna do X amount of sessions for the year to make sure that you can pay yourself your salary. And as you and I both know, most people don’t buy collection A. Most people are buying collection B and collection C, which are of course more money,
Sabrina Jill: right Yes I can’t, I can’t take that whole, like, I want to reach out to everybody. Not everybody. Cuz you’re not gonna be very, I just mean like there are people, very wealthy people aren’t going to pay me. Like some of them will not pay me and I get that because they don’t see, and
Colie James: don’t value photography in the same way that we do. Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: Or they value a different kind of photography. They, you know,
Colie James: There you go.
Sabrina Jill: I will never know the name of, you know, be out in the field and that is I used to like place judgment where judgment shouldn’t be blamed, and place. It’s just not style and that is okay. there people who say to me like, I can’t afford you, but I’m gonna wait a year. Um, I also will put this out there and I’m probably crazy for putting it out there. I am not scared to work with some people who reach out to me and are completely honest with where they are.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: do a lot of like also volunteer work.
I feel
Colie James: Nice.
Sabrina Jill: yourself out there. So I work with,
Colie James: Okay.
Sabrina Jill: project and stuff like that. So like when, know, I feel like if you put yourself out there in really good way, comes back.
Colie James: But let’s just also say that you are able to do that now because you are profitable otherwise, I think Exactly. So I think the problem is most people don’t realize if you make yourself as profitable as you need to be, you can do whatever in the world you wanna do to volunteer your time to like, I mean, I did a session for one of my long term clients a couple weeks ago, completely for free.
And believe me, they didn’t need free. But what happened was they reached out and they said literally this, this year colie. We don’t wanna film, we don’t wanna full session, we just want updated photos and do you even do that? And we went back and forth on a day and a time. And then when I was done, I told her, I was like, And listen, I’m not gonna send the proposal.
I’m not gonna send the contract. Like this one’s just on me. I mean, you want me to come to your house for 30 minutes? Like literally, I, I wanted to play with your kids anyways. Let’s just be honest. So I went to their. I got that, that family portrait right off the bat, and then I played with the kids for like 30 more minutes and when I got everything that I was satisfied with, I was like, Okay, you’ll get your photos in three weeks.
Bye guys.
Sabrina Jill: Right. And also, when you’re priced right and you are making the money that you should be making, you actually have more time.
Colie James: Yes.
Sabrina Jill: like, this is a crazy busy season fall. Crazy. but this is my, I have as many clients, I don’t do those many sessions back to back, to back,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: do many sessions. I charge more than other photographers for many sessions. What I do is I will say like, it’s pretty much giving them a taste of what it would be. So I get a lot more smiling at the camera photos, but it’s on their couch, you know, And I get a couple of like in between moments, but I don’t want to sit there day, 20 minutes
Colie James: Outside in nature,
Sabrina Jill: I love
Colie James: Cause you know, that’s my worst nightmare. I know, but I definitely don’t wanna be in front of the flat irons for like session after session, after session. I, I mean, you were mentioning snakes. Like I have a legitimate fear that I’m gonna be standing out there and like, I mean, I wear knee high boots when I go
Sabrina Jill: do those too. But yeah, like I don’t want to sit there for a whole day back to back to back. I do like maximum clients a day on the weekends. It’s usually like one in the morning in morning Sunday, and then one in the evening on Saturday.
Colie James: mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: that’s pretty much it. But I am making more money than when I did back to back to back to back. So now I’m able to volunteer. I coach my like girls on the run team
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: I, And I hectic, I’m not gonna lie. It’s crazy still in the fall, but it’s like way more, um, It’s like a better feeling, right?
It’s just you’re able to give more of yourself when you have a business that’s organized and you make more money,
Colie James: Yes,
Sabrina Jill: it’s just really nice. And I pro I literally, I’m just thinking about the person out there who’s like, I don’t see myself. can do it. It’s just you just, you do, you do have to like, give yourself and, and the best advice I ever had for me, Well, I had a lot of really good advice.
I’ve mentioned it, but like, one of ’em was like how you mentioned doing a free session. I did, what did I do? Like four free sessions in the
Colie James: those people are still on your website. I went on your website this morning and noticed that one session. I mean that probably got you, You should think about how many people have hired you just because they saw that one session on your website. Cuz that session is still so good. And I know when I gave you your feedback after you did it, you were like, Are you sure it’s, I’m like, No.
Like that session’s, that’s gonna get you hired, I don’t think you need to do anymore. That one’s gonna get you hired at. You need more for examples. But like in general, that was the perfect session that you could have had. Says.
Sabrina Jill: sessions every year, because just, especially with people who I like, feel the magic with,
Colie James: Creativity. Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: just need my creativity. So, so don’t give yourself free sessions to like, people who aren’t gonna, You have to tell them, what do you want? know,
Colie James: boundaries.
Sabrina Jill: Right. Set your boundaries and then go with, go do it. Don’t be like, give free sessions, but not just winging it. Free sessions. That was another mistake I had made in the past.
Colie James: Well, hey, speaking of mistakes, that is actually how we’re gonna end it. So I don’t know that you have one, but hey, Sabrina, what was your biggest fuck up in your business? What did you learn from it and how did you change?
Sabrina Jill: I’m gonna say my biggest one was, I think it was when I was vulner before and said I did not. Label myself with a price. I just was trying to compete with other people who were just clicking the camera. thought too much about every, what everybody else was doing. I just thought about, didn’t, the pricing I didn’t look into that at all.
Like I said,
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: a numbers person. I am not a business person. But find mentor that you trust, Find them.
Colie James: That won’t steer you wrong. Yes.
Sabrina Jill: stalking her on someone else’s website because I felt like she, like, looked more like me. Like I just felt this like colorful connection and you’re way more outgoing than I am.
Colie James: And you know what I realized though? You’re talking about Brooke Schultz? That’s whose website I was on. Yes. Okay. No, no. It took me like 20 minutes of thinking like what? California. And do you know why I went to Brooke Schultz retreat? Because I wanted to learn how to make women look better because you know, Brooke Schultz not to give away her secrets, cuz Brooke is awesome, but like, How Brooke, everything in Brooke’s work is put together.
Like all of her light using film is beautiful because she photographs where the light is. And you and I both know in in-home documentary photography, we don’t do that. We take the photos where the action happens versus trying to have the action happen where the light is good. So that is why I went to Brooks Retreat.
I mean, but Brooke is amazing. But yeah, it took me that long to realize whose website I was on that you found me off.
Sabrina Jill: I’m like, I dunno what names to throw up, But yeah, like I think my biggest mistake was not investing in someone like else, I guess, like you not investing in a mentor, a business guide, something sooner. And I’m not talking about those like for $25, here’s a little guide and then you end up spending, well I’ve done that, um, more money with someone else.
You know, that person the road and you realize they’re just, you know, redoing it. Really find. A person that you trust. And I honestly would say with the business stuff like you and aami like that, just set up my business. I’m, I’m good right
Colie James: good now. I’m so happy.
Sabrina Jill: for little things. I’ll pop up onto the class like, I hadn’t signed onto yours in a while, and soon enough I’ll probably sign on and be like, I need to, like, redo that stuff.
But also,
Colie James: I mean, cuz you know all those things. If you’re paying attention to the emails with Thea’s new form builder on the one clicks, I mean, now you can go and you don’t have to build your own forms anymore. You just click a button and they get copied into your account so that all you have to do is swap the photos.
mean,
Sabrina Jill: is the most amazing. I need that in business. And for another, like I said, you’re a vulnerable photographer. even when it comes to manual, am not the best at it all the time. Like I completely still, and I have a R six, so my screen shows me
get dark photos and mess up. That really was nice, that camera
Colie James: Uhhuh.
Sabrina Jill: Um, but yeah, so uh, just not just trying to say like I have a camera and going on automatic and pretending I know what I’m doing and charging people right away. Just don’t do it. Just, um, invest in yourself.
Colie James: Figure your shit out. I got you. Girl.
Sabrina Jill: the business side. If you have the creativity, that’s wonderful.
I have that too. I love it. It’s fun. But if you don’t have the business side, find the hand holding
Colie James: Okay,
Sabrina Jill: there. Yeah. Find a person, you
Colie James: All right, and that’s it. Sabrina. I want you to tell everyone where they can find you if they wanna find out more information about your photography sessions and also this therapy photography that you’re planning on doing in the next year.
Sabrina Jill: I sabrina jill photography.com. I think I’m Sabrina. Photography on every social media type of thing. which would be just Instagram and I, what was the other thing? So I’m still in Charlotte. And then, so I’m focusing on therapeutic photography. I haven’t really done released anything about it.
I’m still doing a lot of studying with it.
Colie James: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Jill: the next year I plan on, just having like a creativity, something Don’t know exactly how I’m doing it yet, but I have ideas,
Colie James: All right, Sabrina, I’m gonna have you back on the podcast to talk about it when you release it. Thank you so much for being my guest today. It was so much fun, and for everyone in the listening audience. That’s it for this episode. See you next time.
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